You must log in or register to comment.
You had one person trying to listen, keep track and respond earnestly to each point of a serial liar, and struggling to do it.
The serial liar would make one statement making light of the last thing that was said and then confidently go off on whatever they wanted.
We’ve seen before that Americans want a confident but evil self-serving idiot over a tepid but smart, compassionate leader.
Next morning Edit: My one hope is that the news of Grants Pass, EPA SCOTUS decisions show the real consequences of electing Trump.
a tepid but smart, compassionate leader.
Is that really what you saw on that stage tonight? I saw a guy who lost his car keys because he was so angry at those kids on his lawn. Whether or not the narrative on Biden is fair, he just totally legitimized it.
I get what you’re saying about debating with Trump, or any Republican really. Debate is a lot easier when you care nothing for the truth. Overcoming that is the Democratic candidate’s job. That’s what Biden signed up to do. That’s what the Democrats picked him to do. A candidate who can’t function in that situation has no business on that stage. There are a great many Democrats who could have wiped the floor with Trump.
Yes, he is smart, and showed great intelligence, but in this instance severely underperformed in his ability to communicate clearly, like someone having a panic attack at a presentation. If you read a transcript of the debate it would be clear who is a leader and who is a clown. The raspy cold voice compounded things but those are all superficial elements, not on the substance (which Trump had nothing but lies and snide remarks).
I agree this isn’t what any Democrat including Biden wanted in the debate and AOC, Sanders would be way better orators. I’m saying regardless of tonight, Americans have picked before a charismatic comic in Reagan over a tepid, but smart, compassionate leader like Carter.
There are a great many Democrats who could have wiped the floor with Trump.
AOC would fucking shred him
I like AOC. Unfortunately the majority of people, due to innate racism or misogyny, won’t vote for her. One of the only reasons Biden is there is they know he’s the most likely to get votes from all over the country.
Kamala is the backup the party leadership chose.
I also think she wouldn’t win the vote. For similar reasons as AOC.
As can be seen by the first person to reply to your post.
She’s also a cop with a very unpalatable record. But yes, misogynoir is also a huge hurdle for her, as per that other comment
And what a fuckin poison pill that bitch is. Honestly feel like Sarah Palin is more palatable.
Gish Gallop, I don’t know why they even try against that crap
Biden used to be really good against that tactic, it’s why he won the debate in 2012 against Paul Ryan. Ryan gish galloped and Biden responded with a simple ‘POPPYCOCK!’. It worked.
Honestly I don’t know how much better I could do than biden in an argument with trump. His look of just complete confusion as trump just continued to say complete nonsense was pretty much the same look I had listening to it.
really fair, it’s certainly an uncommon skill but it’s definitely a skill we should be able to expect of our literal leaders
Imagine downvoting “I think the President should be good at public speaking”
Obama spoiled us. Hell, even dubyuh was more articulate than either of the geriatrics we have now.
The man couldn’t even properly answer the abortion questions, I seriously hope you’d do better than that.
Yo, what kind of sick joke are y’all forcing your elderly from the closed ward to participate in?
Just ease their life for as long as viable and take care of them.
It’s starting to feel like elder abuse.
Thank fuck I’m not American. Now, if you’d excuse me, I must get ready for the potential imminent arrival of fascism in about 2 days in my country (France). Can’t wait to see the US fall as well! Wow! What a wonderful fucking world awaits us, huh? 💀
Shall we both bring out the guillotines? Or should start at setting things on fire? As an American, I’m not sure how your French protesting works, but I’m willing to learn.
As someone living in the UK, I’d also like to learn from the French
First you wait for an event that pulls a lot of media to your country like the Olympics, then you start fucking shit up
Also, 100k likes? Having not been on corporate social media sites for a couple of years that just looks grotesque.
I’m as partial to the old dopamine hit as the next guy but after a point surely it’s meaningless?
Eh this was one of the biggest joke tweets and the biggest microblog site, and I believe over half of America was watching. It makes sense.
You forgot the golf argument they had towards the end
What’s weird is part of me just wishes they’d just settle it in a golf match. 1 month practice, PGA rules. I don’t even like golf.
Biden challenged trump to a game, but only if trump carries his own clubs.
🤣🤣🤣
We all know that will never happen.
“You can’t even Carey your own Golf bag” is also is also such a rich guy insult. Imagine someoene in the street throwing that insult at your head.
And somehow you’ll still be vilified if you say: why not vote for a 3rd party candidate?. Clearly both Pepsi and Coke are laced with cyanide, don’t mind me if I choose RC Cola*.
* personally I prefer Jarritos, not Pepsi, Coke or RC. All of this is of course metaphorical, Biden and Trump aren’t actually laced with cyanide but may as well be.
Just because you think Alfred is too old to take care of the Batcave, you don’t replace him with the Joker.
Exactly. You also don’t put Alfred in a fight he will lose against the Joker. Time for fresh and young Alfred Jr.
When people become politically active enough to produce a younger Alfred we can vote for him or her. Until then- it’s going to take a lot more than SJWs being outraged every election year and then disappearing into obscurity in between.
And this is a fact.
They don’t disappear into obscurity, you spend 3 years telling them to shut the fuck up then ignoring them until election year arrives and you realize it’s time to start preemptively blaming them if you lose.
Is that what I do? Because I don’t recall ever telling anyone to shut the fuck up- about anything.
But since some random person that I’ve never talked to before on the internet says so…
It HAS to be true!
“I acknowledge the systemic truth of the statement therefore I’ll twist it to imply the statement is made specifically in reference to me and me alone so I can snarkily dismiss it instead of actually offering a counterargument”
Oh the fucking irony! You got balls. I’ll admit that.
I am not voting for the person who had my friends slaughtered. Believe it or not, some of us knew people in Gaza.
Since you’re putting the idea that you have lost friends into play- we’re done here. I cannot in good faith, debate with people that claim to have a personal connection to a thing that cannot be verified.
Either you have- and therefore have a tremendous bias that cannot, and should not be argued with, or you haven’t, and you’re here in bad faith to create arguments that will result in anyone disagreeing with you as heartless trolls to be banned.
I’ve seen this WAY too many times.
Have a good day.
Really sad. As though no one has trans, queer, immigrant, or POC friends or friends in need of abortion either. As though we didn’t see the other guy double down on his “finish the job” line once again. Sending love 🩵
I suppose this take would be easy if you consider both of those examples to mean the exact same thing.
I’ll vote for a tree stump over a wannabe-dictator that’s also a rapist and a convicted felon.
I would vote for a tree stump, I agree. Might even write it down if the Democrats do what they did in PA in 2020 and have no 3rd party candidate on the ballot.
I’m sure that will help a lot.
No tree stump enabled a genocide
If you think Biden is responsible for the crisis in Gaza, do you think giving the Presidency to the guy who has said, on multiple occasions (including in the debate last night) that “Israel should just finish the job” will make things better?
I guess you can’t have a humanitarian crisis after the genocide is complete…
Both options are the same. Biden did everything Trump would have done. Biden could have ended it months ago. You thought we would just forget all the ceasefire resolutions the US vetoed? Or how about stopping funding the UNRWA?
Nothing changes for Palestine Biden or Trump, just the rhetoric. Did Biden reverse Trump’s decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem? Half the Democrats cheered Trump on when he did it!
tl:dr; both are Zionists and disgust me, both will do exactly what is being done now to Palestinians, no difference.
You can declare them identical on this issue, but even considering how complex politics is, this is the system we have to work with. First Past the Post voting can only support two political parties, full stop. Voting for a third party splits the vote for one party and secures a victory for the other.
It’s fucked. But there are real, long term lasting implications to this election beyond the tragedy in Israel. Republicans are eyeing repealing things like no fault divorce, marriage equality, and voting rights.
Authoritarianism is on the rise globally, and holding Biden accountable for Gaza will put the guy who said his nuclear button is bigger in office. The guy who already tried to illegally remain in office, has not conceded his election loss, and maintains to this day that he is the duly elected President. Who stole classified documents and kept them, refused to return them when asked, and only after being caught red handed with them did he say he declassified them with his mind.
Hold Biden accountable for his actions and inactions in Gaza. But don’t kid yourself that because they’re both bad in Israel that they’re otherwise identical.
Ugh… okay bud. We’re done here. I’m not debating this as it’s been beaten to the ground.
Just like Gaza thanks to Biden.
When you show a willingness to even try to understand how congress works, we can come back to this, but until then- directly blaming Biden for what is happening in Gaza shows you have no idea how any of it works.
Congress LOVES this shit. And if you think that’s not going to happen if Biden is gone- you have no clue how American politics work.
If you choose RC Cola, you get RC Cola. If picking a soft drink was like the elections, you wouldn’t want to choose RC because you’d still get Pepsi or Coke and you’ll just be throwing away your ability to influence it to be the one with the lower concentration of cyanide.
Meanwhile nobody wants to acknowledge that the soda machine is already cooked and needs to be put out to pasture when asking for “no cyanide, please” gets you accused by the supposedly “civil, thoughtful” soda drinkers for being foreign plants hellbent on shoving the soda they don’t like down their throats, instead of regular people who think not dying of cyanide poisoning might be pretty cool.
To anyone thinking, “We surived one term of Trump. How bad can another one be?”
Very bad, as John Oliver points out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp_s
His voice is too annoying for me to listen too, unfortunately.
That’s a shame cause he is by far the best legacy from Jon’s Daily Show and HBO money lets him do all kinds of wacky shit
Yeah I’m so glad HBO gives him so much room. He’s able to go after people who would otherwise keep him tied up in court. I always miss the Colbert Report but this guy, who is definitely Bill Maher, is my other favorite.
Who is pretty much the opposite of Bill Maher you mean?
The only Maher I like is Skid from Glass Cannon
It was a joke on the Indian Elections ep of Last Week Tonight about Modi/'s people going after anyone criticizing Modi.
That’s a vote for Trump.
If you think voting stops fascists from seizing power, you better buckle the fuck up.
It doesn’t stop them, but it requires very little effort and definitely slows them down.
Also let’s not forget how many of us would not survive another trump presidency, not slowing them down is potentially fatal for a large percentage of the population
The “but voting won’t instantly fix all of our problems” crowd:
After voting in every election for the last 24 years I’ve given up on voting fixing any problems, let alone instantly.
I’ve yet to see any footage yet and with all these comments now I’m wondering if bumbling Bush Jr looks like a genius now compared to these guys…
Biden’s voice was very faint and weak, unusually so.
Trump was Trump. Incoherent, but in a way that morons adore, apparently.
I love the part where the democratic leadership made sure there were no viable alternatives during the primary.
How did they do that?
Biden is the incumbent so obviously the only one that can possibly win. Crush all other prospects and tell them to wait their turn
furthermore any challengers are just giViNg tHe eLeCtIoN to trump
Nobody stopped people from running, though. In fact people did run they just lost like primaries are supposed to work?
I get so tired of seeing people hand-wave away democracy like it’s some kind of amateur sport. This is not how fair and impartial primaries are ran. We can recognize the tech-monopolies and the unfair practices (and untold wealth) they use to squash competition but when it comes to elections? shrug
Even Bernie Sanders could’ve run again if he wanted to, but he chose not to. Nobody at the DNC “forced” him to not run as was suggested.
more hand-waving, “anyone can make a video platform”. No, you need infrastructure, SEO attention, Creators, etc etc. You don’t just “decide” to run in elections, the bar for entry is beyond anything a citizen or even most politicians can accrue. Bernie Sanders fell in line a long time ago with the same party he openly said was unfairly treating elections. Vote Biden if that’s your choice and I fully support that, but we need to stop sugar coating and pretending everything is A-ok in the DNC if we ever want an elected official who represents the average voter in the party.
Didn’t have a primary in FL at all.
Okay, and? What is your point?
This is just a misunderstanding of how primaries work and basic civics. There are Democratic primaries in FL. For Senate seats, House seats, etc. Those primary dates differ state-to-state, and Florida’s just so happen to take place in August. Nobody met the requirements to be submitted on the Florida ballot in time, and second to that, it wouldn’t have made a difference ultimately as we would come to find out since nobody achieved any competitive results in earlier primaries or in national polling.
There wasn’t a Primary for President because those who voluntarily threw their hat in the ring either (a) dropped out, (b) did not meet the minimum ballot requirements, or © Biden already earned enough votes for it to be irrelevant. Florida was never make-or-break for anyone else who, again, voluntarily threw their hat in the ring.
I was referring to the presidential primary (as that is the topic of discussion in this thread). Florida did not have one.
As was I, which I explained why it did not happen. Please read more closely.
Basic civics.
The “explanation” doesn’t change that it did not happen. My previous comment did not require a qualifier.
Basic reading comprehension.
Ok, cool? I simply gave context showing your factoid contributes nothing meaningful to the conversation.
None of these kids ever seem to know what they’re talking about. And the moment you point it out with any proof- they disappear to go post their shit elsewhere having not learned a thing.
It’s why I don’t bother anymore trying to persuade them with facts. I just call them out and move on.
cynically i feel the DNC might just dig in their heels and hope people memory hole this. because jesus fuck i sure want to, that was horrifying
At this point what I think is happening is Joe has one of those old age bugs except this one specifically makes the brain to mouth communication issues that come with a stutter a lot worse.
Because communication seems to always be this guy’s biggest stumbling block, if this were just a report card comparison there wouldn’t be a race, he’s obviously still a competent guy as old as he is, the problem is that something’s going on that makes it way harder for him to adequately communicate that whenever he needs to.
That’s really the only way I can self reason why he then proceeded to be completely fine in the much lower pressure environment of his after debate rally.
Edit: report card not credit card, although personally I’m willing to bet that Joe’s credit score is way better than Donny’s too
Yeah, good thing all that matters for a president is the ability to have good ideas, and there is no need to be able to convey these ideas to other humans.
They’ll tell us that Joe did great, and that anyone thinking otherwise is being subliminally influenced by Russian propaganda.
He had a decent performance. I understand more about his policies and called trump a felon and a fat loser. That’s what I wanted out of it. Trump literally could not answer half of the questions because he was still rambling about the previous question.
Biden had a hoarse throat from a cold and a bit of a stutter but he turned on a dime when he was asked different questions. Both dudes are old af. The choice is: do you want senile grandpa who can’t answer the question or the guy who has a soft voice?
Biden’s clearly still with it but slower, and trump is clearly still nuts, possibly moreso. I choose Biden because he’s the only one who occasionally says things that make sense.
To be fair Biden has had a stutter for all his life. How quiet he was and with everything going on it didn’t look good though. I wish we could have different candidates. I’m not sure if this will change anyone’s vote or not though.
To be fair Biden has had a stutter for all his life.
That gets repeated a lot, but I think the people who think that’s a good enough excuse have not actually seen middle aged Biden speak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_v00iGJCLY
The Biden of that video has some incredible charisma, but he has nothing to do with the person today.
I was considering voting for Biden. I’ve never voted before. I think after seeing all this though the only way I’ll vote for Biden is if my dad votes for Trump just so I can cancel his vote out lol
Voting for Biden is not voting for the man, it’s voting for an ideology, for hope, for a future less grim. Vote for Biden.
Honestly that’s overselling Biden and their own pitch is you are voting against ending democracy. Biden isn’t going to make the future less grim (unless we protest), but Trump would certainly make it worse.
He absolutely is making the future less grim. The industry news I read for my work in the energy industry is full of progress in environmental regulation. It’s a fight vs Republicans and Biden is really making progress.
What progress will you have to make if Biden who has been polling 40/40 or 39/41 loses to Trump? It may be less grim (if he can win) but it is much more likely to be grim if Democrats don’t take their heads out of the sand and consider nominating someone actually able to handle a debate against Trump.
To everyone who has downvoted me both here and on Reddit for saying “I think Biden is too old to run in 2024”, I have two things to say: the first of them is “I hope you take advantage of this opportunity to wake up to your own biases”, and the second one is “Fuck you”.
You have been eating up every single tought-terminating cliche put in circulation by the elites of your party and parroting it online not just when it did serve your ideology or your electoral success, but also when it was just a cover for incompetent fools looking over their own asses and the hierarchies they form a part of. Many tried to warn you that just because 90% of every Conservative talking point was cooked in a meth lab by a blind monkey doesn’t mean you should also close your ears when they said that the sky was blue or that Biden is old. Yes, Trump is old too, yes, THEY were arguing in bad faith, but you still were morons for refusing to even consider that it might have been a problem.
I don’t have the misfortune of living in the US, but even as someone who just cares for the general stability of the world, I hope you can get the fuck out of this mess, if nothing else because contemporary Democrats don’t collaborate with Latin American golpists noawadays, and because Republicans are a walking menace for green energy transition, but for the love of everything that is holy PLEASE LEARN SOMETHING from yesterday’s disaster.
Statistically both these men should be dead. Biden beat Reagan as oldest president. Trump would be second oldest president behind Biden and beating Reagan if he won, with Trump already being older than Reagan when he left office.
This is ridiculous. They belong on an iceberg but there aren’t any left.
deleted by creator
Biden went to the 2020 primaries under the premise that he would be a single-term president, specifically to kick Trump out, and it was immediately used as a hammer against internal critics. Once president, his policies couldn’t be criticized in any way (not even in a constructive one), because it was “ammo for the republicans”, or else “but he’s doing good things too!” (never mind that the positive Biden policies, positive as they were, were always patchworks, and never structural reforms); once the time for primaries was getting closer, the mantra became “saying that Biden is too old is a Republican talking point”, and “you can’t run primaries in a party with a sitting president”. And perhaps there was well intentioned people who took all of these ideas at face value and believed in them, but they always refused to see the subtext: “do not question the official Democrat party line”, regardless of its blind spots and conflicts of interest.
Well, what are you going to do now that the official party line has crushed all opposition year after year and the Democrats have suddenly discovered themselves in front of the abyss, sacrificing all possible alternatives for the sake of electoral success when even the people most ideologically aligned with the Old Guard are scared? Are you going to continue justify all the bad decisions that took you to this place, or are you going to analyze what the hell is wrong with the party to start reforming it immediately after the elections? I understand not wanting to have an open-air debate immediately before the presidential elections, but if you guys refuse to work it out right next, I’m just going to assume that the USA is just going to be a fascist country by 2033.
My impression is that Biden said he would step aside in the hope that a viable alternative would present itself. It did not. It was also hoped that a Trump loss might push the GOP away from him and off the path of pure fascism. It did not. I think he ran more because he didn’t want fascists in power than because he wanted the power himself.
I was under the impression that he was supposed to be handing off the role to Kamala, which was meant to be a shift towards a young(er) leader, woman and person of color that they hoped would check enough boxes for younger voters to make them think she was an actual progressive. That plan seems to have been nixed once they realized she has so little appeal across the board, she could probably lose a popularity contest to any number of infectious diseases, and Kamala 2024 got scrubbed.
They potentially could have found other viable alternatives, but they would have represented an actual shift in party leadership rather than bowing down to the party orthodoxy, so the DNC would never actually support them.
What they really want is another candidate like Obama that is charismatic and can talk in a way that convinces voters who don’t feel represented by the current Democratic party to say, “This is the candidate who can deliver on reshaping the party in line with my views,” while having no intentions of meaningfully deviating from the party line. I think the experience with Obama is still fresh enough in the minds of these voters that they are on guard against the same sort of deception a second time.
Do you really think there is no alternative? Isn’t it more a matter of making place for an alternative, and then it will turn up?
My God man we still have at least 4 viable alternatives from the 2020 primaries. If we’d held real primaries we could have avoided this easily.
People need a reality check on Biden’s senility. Some of us saw it earlier than others who continued to live in a silo. I am willing to vote for Joe but I also knew he’s a liability with no strength versus Trump under these circumstances.
And we both had options and have options right now. Convention is 8 weeks away. Democrats can still jump ship and I can think of 6 alternative, younger, more charismatic candidates to win this stupid fucking popularity contest with ease.
People need a reality check on their reality checks. Biden has been living with a stutter since he was young - it has nothing to do with age or senility. Those high-pressure, fast-paced debates just aren’t a good platform to measure people up unless they’re a showman. I feel confident in my own opinions, but I still freeze up in fast-paced debates where I can’t look things up.
Haha this is some serious copium bullshit. Stutters don’t cause you to jump from abortion to immigration stories mid-sentence.
And if you want proof of that, go watch VP Biden debate Paul Ryan. After you do that, re-watch last night and tell me that’s his stutter.
Biden isn’t a new inexperienced politician. People like you have been telling me that Biden’s experience should prepare him to have debates like this, which should ve even easier when lacking an audience. Shit it wasn’t even as good as his 2020 debates.
Shit, the 2020 debate against Trump is available and it’s Day and Night.
Just sitting here watching the US elect a man who openly buffalo buffalo buffalo wants to turn it into a theocratic dictatorship…
what does buffalo (x3) mean /gen
Random gramatically correct nonsense to mess with data scraping.
Wild! And might actually be effective, unlike the weirdos putting a “license” on their comments.
Imagine US turning into a dictatorship.
Imagine US being on the Axis side of the WW3.
The US chose the winning side in both wars, was extremely permeable to fascism after the second war, and use the Red Scare to purge political dissensions.
The US not helping Germany is mostly due to financial interests (for the politicians) and Pearl Harbour (for the masses).
My point is, let’s not pretend that the US being on the wrong side if history in WW3 is a surprising idea.
In which we can die in droves fighting the nazis for those other countries just to get called axis.
You guys can’t be fr
