Summary
Key leaders of the “Abandon Harris” movement, which encouraged voters to oppose Kamala Harris due to U.S. support for Israel during the Gaza war, are now expressing unease about Trump’s incoming administration.
Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.
However, concerns are growing over his Cabinet picks, such as Mike Huckabee and Tulsi Gabbard, which some see as troubling for Muslim communities.
Unfortunately it boiled down to selecting the lesser of the two evils and the Abandon Harris clowns chose the neo-Nazi MAGAts which will send, for free, a nice assortment of 155 mm artillery shells to Israel… From my point of view, zero sympathy for your FAFO.
Yep. They’re getting exactly what they voted for, whether they like it or not. They might not have liked Harris’ limp wristed attempts at encouraging moderation and restraint, but Trump’s plan was to “Finish the problem” and will not just enable, but actively encourage genocide.
I’ll never understand how people could vote for Trump over Harris on the Israel thing.
Trump was crystal clear he would give Israel whatever they needed to get it done and quick. Democrats rolled over for Israel but at least made it known they weren’t happy about it. Which is most certainly not enough but still.
I just hope the Democratic party takes the hint that their extremely middle-of-the-road approach to these and many other serious problems is killing them during elections. They should stop trying to please everyone (and especially the far-right) and commit to an actual opposing viewpoint.
No Trump lied he would bring peace. Harris said she would give Israel everything it needs. You are switching the sides around.
Trump lied he would bring peace
No, Trump told the truth; there will be the kind of peace you find at the site of hundreds of mass graves.
It gets harder to continually extend sympathy and solidarity with all of the fucknuts who are ostensibly allies on the left, when they focus on a single media-focused disaster, and they try to “send a message” to their own side, by backstabbing them and helping the fascist who will be 1000x worse.
Progressives who proclaim their hate for both parties are simply binary thinkers whose privilege insulates them from the consequences of their “principled stands”. They wonder why the country doesn’t just hand all power over to Progressives… go blow.
I voted for Harris. I voted for Biden. I voted for Clinton.
I still wouldn’t warn a single one of them if they were about to get hit by a bus.
Its harm reduction. They don’t solve anything. They just keep us treading water sinking slowly whereas Republicans start taking a hammer to the hull to open up new holes.
Harm reduction is bad?
Obviously, it’s not ideal, but one has to act according to the real life conditions… And in 2024, our only two options were “harm reduction,” and literal fascism with literal concentration camps.
Fuck you if you didn’t choose harm reduction.
To be fair to them, we’re just delaying collapse. It is a choice.
I agree with them that there’s no saving this constitutional structure. In one sense it’s cowardly, because there’s no escape from this capitalist slaughterhouse hellscape without collapse. Collapse is necessary. Trump will certainly usher that in faster.
But Im too much of a softy to let the blood that always has to spill be on my hands.
This country was irreparable since Reagan, a zombie nation oligarch piggie bank. My vote was a cowardly one for a few more years of quiet orderly slaughter, NOT peace.
But we lost, so the slaughter will be loud and bigger than it’s ever been, so maybe it’s time for revolution if we want our kids to have anything left.
Because in 4 years the DNC WILL anoint someone to meet Trump’s economy in the middle, and even I may not be able to stomach voting for that.
Kamala was in a weird place as well.
Normally it’s easy for people to hold their noses for an incumbent. But if Kamala won. Shed run again in 2028.
Which would mean from 2012 to 2032, there wouldn’t have been a fair Dem primary.
20 fucking years…
Party leaders don’t understand that when you take primaries away, it hurts general turnout. Because regardless of who wins, the primary is the time for the eventual candidate to get their finger on the pulse and see what voters want.
Which is reliably that the Dem candidate moves left.
Without a primary they move right and turnout goes down.
We have literally decades of data that shows this, but it’s not what the donors want and the present DNC wants donations more than votes.
Hopefully Winkler gets chair in a few months and that changes.
The DNC would rather have Trump as POTUS than Sanders or AOC.
With Trump, the bribe money keeps flowing to both party machines, They are both paid to keep this sociopath owned economy safe from the people.
Realistically they weren’t gonna hold a fair primary anyway. If they held one we would’ve gotten candidate Shapiro, who would have been stomped into dust by Trump.
In large part because Jaimie Harrison was the DNC chair.
There’s an upcoming vote for chair, and there’s some standouts and one crazy with no chance.
But from what I know about them (not everything) we’re almost guaranteed a good chair with a very good chance of getting an amazing one.
I’m no fan of the DNC, but there’s a real chance to turn everything around and it’s barely a month away
Here’s hoping, though remember the people who voted for Harrison are still the ones voting. I remember we did get Howard Dean after his campaign, so hopefully there’s a similar thing that happens.
Jaimie got it because Biden appointed him…
He was the only option for DNC members to vote for, it’s a rubber stamp process when a Dem wins the presidential.
The only time they really vote is when a Dem president doesn’t win, or the chair resigns early (I think).
I voted for Harris. I voted for Biden. I voted for Clinton.
I still wouldn’t warn a single one of them if they were about to get hit by a bus.
American Democracy in a nutshell. You get two choices, they’re both awful for different reasons. One of them wants to see you executed for your religious beliefs/sexual preferences/nation of origin. The other is continent to sell bunker buster bombs to some raving psychotic mass murderers overseas. Nobody is going to do shit about climate change, though, so we’re all on the clock in the long run.
Its harm reduction.
It increasingly feels like the closest thing to harm reduction the US achieved was the time Trump fucked up his COVID response and a bunch of his senior leadership choked to death on their own lung fluid.
But don’t call these people stupid. That would be racist.
People I’ve interacted with on Lemmy 👆
Edit:
voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East
what
I guess you could argue that total eradication of anyone that Israel hates will bring peace so they were sorta right
Like bringing balance to the force by murdering all the Jedi. Technically correct
It’s weird people are blaming the ones who didn’t vote…
Obviously, if they voted trump, blame them away.
But it’s like people don’t realize how big of an ask it was to have people to vote for a genocide, especially when it’s against the country someone came from and their family is still there.
If Kamala would have won, trying to criticize her would have worked as well as criticizing Biden on Israel the last four years. Any criticism would be met with “Trump would be worse”.
With trump in charge, people will (rightfully) call out American support of a genocide as wrong. So while trump will undoubtedly make shit worse. Him being president means the Dem party will criticize him, and be more left in 2028.
If Kamala had won, she and the party would have moved more to the right in 2028. Just look at what happened after 4 years as VP. The few parts of her 2020 platform people liked, she moved to the right on.
The genocide of Palestinians didn’t start two years ago, it’s been going on for 70 years. It makes sense they’re thinking long term rather than only focuses on the “now” and voting for a lesser evil that maintains the status quo that is a genocide.
If you want someone to blame, it seems like the blame should be on the “left” candidate that ignored everyone actually on the left and became bff’s with Liz Cheney. Not the people that understand when a Republican wins, we get a primary which even when the party pick wins, the primary pulls them left. Even if it’s just lies to win the primary, as long as they keep the lies up, it helps in the general because voters want Dems to move left.
Without a primary, the chosen candidate takes the left for granted and moved right. In this case if Kamala won, we wouldn’t have another option in 2028 either, it would be 2032 before the next real primary.
Like…
I just don’t see how someone could blame anyone except the candidate, her campaign team, and the DNC.
They’re the ones that prevented a real primary, and that made the campaign platform that alienated lifelong Dem voters in hopes of gaining republican voters who wouldn’t be caught dead voting for a Dem.
It obviously failed, and the media is desperate to blame anything other than the stuff their billionaire owners bribed the Dems to support.
They’ll never ever say the problem was a Dem is too “fiscally conservative” because they’re the ones paying neoli eral candidates to pretend that’s a good move for the average American
Biden started this election -400 electoral votes in his own polling. Kamala Harris was the least popular, most divisive candidate in the primary (even as gamed as the 2020 primary was) and left at the bottom of the race.
You are right. You even see the echo chamber narrative that Biden could have still beaten Trump on bluesky being the preferred narrative.
DNC has almost fully pulled a “It’s the children who are wrong” and I’m not convinced they will ever have a fair, open primary again. This was a historic self-own that saw Trump picking up support in nearly all categories.
DNC has been playing Russian roulette with their primaries and voting base for years, honestly the gun has fired a couple times…
Gonna be honest, i think Biden could have beaten Trump. I don’t blame him for stepping down (though if he had done so sooner i think it would have been better) but i think he had at least as much chance as Harris, maybe more. That’s purely strategic, though. I think the calls for him to step down were coming from a position of weakness and fear and were interpreted as such by the electorate.
He could have easily won if he did something about Gaza other than “support genocide” but here we are, at the (current) end of a long string of such decisions.
We see with the UHC shooting how much anger there is for the inequities in this country, it would be easy to tap into that.
Given how Harris ran her campaign, in retrospect, I actually agree that Biden probably would have performed better and I absolutely did not believe that was possible after the first debate.
Harris ran an historically shit campaign that cost bonkers money.
Harris’s major flaw was saying she’d just be more Biden, which Biden would definitely do. And for as poor as she did, it was still an improvement on Biden’s numbers. They needed someone willing to break from the status quo.
She said she’d be more Biden but she didn’t have the track record to back it up. Biden has been underwhelming in a lot of ways but Harris rejected maintaining stronger union ties and failed repeatedly to commit to keeping on Lina Khan - she basically ran on “Who wants four years more of Biden but more neoliberal!”
What did you think would happen when you abstained from voting?
Edit:(i see in another comment that you voted. So my question I guess is to anyone that abstained.)
What did the neolibs think would happen when they ran a campaign designed to appeal to the far right at the expense of the base?
Go ask them.
Some people tried, and were told, “shush, I’m talking”. And anyone with my views was locked out of the convention. So they have taken pretty severe actions to not be asked these questions at all.
Ok, but my point by saying go ask them is that I’m not responsible for that narrative. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
fair.
Did we all just collectively forget that the DNC was panicking about rushing the vote for Kamala as fast as possible to avoid lawsuits from Republican states that could have kept her off the ballot?? If that happened then Trump would just have won by default.
We’re in this fantasy world that we could have had a primary. It’s stubborn old fucking Bidens fault that we were in this position. There was no time to have a primary even if I really really really wish there was. Biden decided that even though he doesn’t know where he is 90% of the time he was The Best Person™ to run against Trump because pretty much every human being that obtains some sort of power for any meaningful amount of time becomes a narcissistic asshole.
This is 100% on the old fuck Biden for not accepting that death comes for us all and decline is a real thing. He just plugged his ears and went “lalalalalalala I can’t hear you!” until someone told him he just finished a debate and it went horribly.
Did we all just collectively forget that the DNC was panicking about rushing the vote for Kamala as fast as possible to avoid lawsuits from Republican states that could have kept her off the ballot?? If that happened then Trump would just have won by default.
What?
As far as I know all those states would have just listed “Democratic Party”…
Like, that’s how the electoral college works. The party with the most votes gets to appoint electors and then they cast the vote for a person.
The name being on the ballot or just the party doesn’t matter. The DNC lied that it would matter to stop people from fighting Kamala’s anointment.
Same as they lied about “keys to the war cheat” that was the victory fund that the candidate and the DNC have control over, both have unrestricted access to the funds and there’s basically no accountability with it.
We’re in this fantasy world that we could have had a primary.
I stopped reading here.
We can’t really continue until you recognize the above. Then we can build off that if you still have questions.
This is a volcanic take on Lemmy.
It’s true tho…
Without a primary the Dems consistently move as far right as they can. Sometimes they overshoot and it lets a Republican in.
But no one wanted Kamala as president in 2020, and she moved further right for 2024 and got even less popular.
The next four years will suck. But at least we might have a say in the 2028 candidate.
Kamala would have been almost a decade of “same as Biden” but she was likely to keep moving to the right.
Like, I voted for Kamala. But I knew it wasn’t going to matter because she had zero chance in my state. For it to go blue we need an 08 Obama type.
But I still held my nose.
I just don’t understand why people want to blame those who couldn’t hold their nose, instead of criticizing the unelected political machine who said Kamala was our only option despite being wildly unpopular.
People in the party and Biden’s admin knew how bad he was, and how his age was effecting him. It’s not an opinion anymore, even Chris Clizza admitted it after CNN fired him.
But the DNC still tried to shove him down America’s throats till the last second, then replaced him with Kamala.
If anyone deserves blame for trump, it’s those people. The ones who wasted 1.5 billon dollars on a campaign and couldn’t beat the hands down worst president America has ever had.
criticizing the unelected political machine who said Kamala was our only option despite being wildly unpopular.
We have FPTP for Presidential elections. We have two major parties who are in control. We have systems at state level that create and maintain gerrymandering and disfranchising certain demographics of voters. The only result was ever going to be Trump or Harris. It’s the system. Everyone knows it’s bad, and any changes will take effort and time, probably from the ground up. Some states have made progress but we have a long way to go.
So in the last election, there was only one way to prevent Trump, a known problem for everyone and every issue, from winning. And too many chose other routes for various reasons, and are now surprised that he won. The math and logistics of FPTP are all over the place, this shouldn’t be a shock. Don’t vote for one, the other will win. Period. The irony is that even though Harris might have just been Biden for another term, we can’t be sure of that. Imagine a timeline where Harris barely wins, and changes many of the things being protested for. Those people would look back and think, wow, we almost missed this possibility because everyone was saying she’ll be the same.
I mean, maybe and probably not. We won’t ever know. We did know what we’d get with Trump though, and thanks to not enough countering his votes, we’re getting even more. Yay.
“Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East”
How the FUCK would you hope for that? Have you been living under a rock and didn’t know who Trump actually is and what he does? The Muslim ban Trump? That Trump? Bringing peace to the Middle East? Seriously?
The American electorate is stunningly stupid and disconnected from reality. Look up some of the trending Google searches on election day, they’re stupider than you think
Like the ones confused that Biden wasn’t an option.
Wait wait, I remember a guy who was constantly arguing and berating everyone about how Biden was just the worst Satan reincarnation or some shit and how we all needed to band together against both him and Harris. Oooh @HomerianSymphony , you still around, bud?
We’d like an interview.
They were probably just astroturfing, and now that they’ve successfully completed their objective, they’ve got no reason to stick around.
I still see a handful of the useful idiots that were on here paroting those talking points, and I have to wonder if they’ve been able to accept that they were sold a bill of goods.
I have to wonder if they’ve been able to accept that they were sold a bill of goods.
They were the bill of goods. They were a line item on the Trump campaign budget. Their temp job is over so they’re not posting.
What did sticking with genocide Joe and Kamala get you? They knew they were gonna lose and didn’t change course 1 bit
You sure aren’t living up to that name with comments like that.
Look, it wasn’t about Biden or Harris or Obama or whomever else you want to project your shitty little excuses on. This cycle was about stopping a then would-be dictator. We were trying to do right by the world. Not by you. Not by the MAGA cultists. Not by Gaza or Ukraine alone. For everyone through stopping someone who had made it clear he, and through the agreement and support of the GOP, would do worse.
Then you single issue idiotic disappointments wouldn’t wake the fuck up. Yes, the Dems fucked up. Harris started strong and some snob Left probably ancient “strategist” convinced her to shift gears and she toned it down, along with other bad choices. It was shit. You know what I can die knowing I did?
Not voting someone who might actually be fucking evil BACK into the Office of the Biggest God Damn Chair we have. So kiss my ass, Schwdinehund, at least we tried to stop what’s coming.
Biden had no chance of winning. Kamala had no chance of winning. Their campaigns knew that.
If stopping a would be dictator is so important they would run someone with a chance. The Democratic party is dead, sticking with it means you want to lose
Sticking with it wasn’t a choice. You seem to believe taking our current situation and just rolling that shit back is a time machine we have the capacity of producing. There was no other candidate and we knew that. Unless you have a realistic suggestion that would have worked at the time.
We’re listening.
Biden put his ego over country and stayed in the race because he didn’t care if Trump won. Kamala accepted the nomination even though her team knew she couldn’t win because she didn’t care if Trump won. The Democrats don’t care if they lose, supporting them means you don’t care if you lose which means you don’t really care about stopping the would-be dictator.
Okay, at the risk of being censored: You’re actually being stupid.
We do NOT support the current Democrats, nor the party, nor their way of doing things. We supported trying to make sure Trump did not get a second term by standing beside the only candidate(s) that had a chance because there wasn’t anyone else. So stop for a second and think because it’s clear you’re a single issue voter: You can’t stop repeating the same faulty freaking logic.
Then is not now.
Then does not mean we supported them.
We wanted a better world. Days where we don’t have to worry so much. We support Gaza and Ukraine.
If this and much, much more means supporting the opponent of a would-be dictator, then we fucking do so. That’s the difference. WE SAW THE BIGGER PICTURE and did what we had to do.
It was what had to be done. The Dems fucked up their messaging. However, people like you chose to fuck our home and possibly the world to greater and lesser degrees because you stand so damned fucking stalwart it’s like trying to convince a brick wall to fall over with kind words of encouragement. If I live through these next four years I hope to be a part of the team that writes the history books. If I am I’ll make sure to cite people like you, @MisterScruffy , for your contribution towards tyranny and dictatorship.
And for the record: Yes, I’m pissed. Not at you, you’re dumb. At what brought us to this point.
No no no,they saved Palestine, remember?
Now that the Dems aren’t in control all those Palestinians are perfectly safe.
Right, tankies? That’s all you were screeching about back in November. Now it’s cricket chirps, like Palestine even mattered to you lot. Disgusting.
I’m not from the US but I know that I would really struggle morally to cast a vote for either party.
Yes, voting for Trump because of Palestine is stupid, but I can easily see how voting for the party that keeps sending money and weapons, and supporting them in the UN, while pretending to ask them to “be more careful about killing civilians”, would not be very desirable either.
The US electoral system is absolute dogshit, but in my opinion the Dems lost this election all by themselves.
Edit: are the downvotes because you disagree, or because you’re upset that I’m right?
hypocrites, these people are two faced hypocrites. they get what they wanted with the election and now their all upset? if these people are not the definition of a hypocrite idk what is.
anti genocide voters are not hypocrites.
People who ignore the realities of strategic voting in a FPTP system, then pat themselves on the back for their moral superiority are hypocrites. Anti-Genocide wasn’t even on the table. Ignoring literally every other issue that was on the table just so they can feel good about throwing away their vote makes them hypocrites.
The Palestinian people have gained absolutely nothing from those anti-genocide votes. They’re virtue-signalling at best, intentional spoiler votes at worst.
Meanwhile, there are labour protections, checks on corporate enshittification, mechanisms to slow down the accumulation of wealth and institutions of democracy that the incoming administration will tear down (or at least try to) that the alternative wouldn’t. All of these are victims of that arrogance, to think that an anti-genocide vote is worth more than an anti-christofascism(+genocide) vote.
They’re virtue-signalling
Harris lost across nearly every single demographic. Thats disengagement, not virtue signallers. You wish it was virtue signallers so you would have someone to be mad at besides Harris.
Oh I have plenty of people to be mad at - Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, Harris, Biden, the DNC, the conservative wing of the Democratic Party, authoritarian bootlickers masquerading as leftists…
Voter disengagement is an issue, yes, but people advocating for voting against Harris on grounds of voting against Genocide (which, you know, is the whole topic here) fail doubly: First, they pretend it’s the core issue of the election and their vote puts them on the anti-genocide side, and second, they pretend it was a topic of the election at all, such that there would even be an anti-genocide side to put them on.
So yes, I am mad at people pretending that voting against Harris somehow makes them more virtuous. I’m even more mad at the people voting against her for actually relevant reason, but that’s not the topic here.
So yes, I am mad at people pretending that voting against Harris somehow makes them more virtuous.
Sometimes when given an impossible choice the only possible choice is not to act, or to choose something thats not on offer. Some people felt they had to make that choice in the last election, and I dont see how you cant empathize with that. Some of them werent voting for trumps policies as much as they were voting for trump to come in and do what he said he’d do-- burn this system to the ground with a flamethrower. If your family were getting genocided and you existed in a voting system which gave no choice on the ballot but to continue it, wouldnt you be brave enough make that third choice, or would you simply vote to kill your own?
I’m mad just like you– I’m mad at the DNC, the centrists, and Biden/Harris for creating that situation and not forcing some other outcome. Sometimes these bad things happen because we allow for them to and make space for them to exist. You and me.
Why didnt MANY more Dems register their dissatisfaction with genocide in the “uncommitted” vote? Are we so indifferent to what bad policies Biden/Harris was proposing? It would have cost Dems nothing, Biden was going to win over Williamson in that half arsed primary anyway. But the dem voters by and large couldnt even be bothered to lift a finger to signal disapproval with our government sponsoring a far right wing genocide of some “browns” (and some reporters, doctors, aid workers, american citizens etc) in some far away country. By and large, only the youth, progressives, and muslims were willing to even do this symbolic vote to message our leadership that this stuff mattered a lot.
So you’re angry at the victims now huh. I’m struggling to be concerned about centrist anger. We’re all going down civlization’s toilet together now, on the centrists watch. Maybe the centrist dem voters will finally feel that they have something in common with anyone but their own immediate family and their bank accounts. But frankly I’m not holding my breath, and I dont care much about centrist anger myself. Why take advice or criticism from those you dont respect?
And that last line:
I’m even more mad at the people voting against her for actually relevant reason, but that’s not the topic here.
Our funding of war crimes and mass murder is not a relevant reason to push back eh. Well that says a lot about you doesnt it.
An impossible choice between…?
The persistent myth that both parties are equally bad is patently bullshit propaganda by those fostering that disengagement. Pretending that all the other issues don’t matter in the face of the decision between “not going to stop genocide” and “going to make it worse” is narrow-minded. Again, if someone thinks “I’m not going to vote for genocide” is a justification for “I’m not going to vote against the fascists”, they’re trying to show their virtue with respect to genocide, while not actually caring about anything else except that signalling of virtue. That’s the hypocrisy.
The persistent myth that both parties are equally bad is patently bullshit propaganda by those fostering that disengagement.
I cant agree. The utter lack of pressure on dem leadership to counterbalance AIPAC money is not how “democracy” is supposed to work, and by acting like we have no choice in these things we guarantee a continuance of that lack of choice forever. I’m not up for that.
Good chat, I dont think we are going to come together on this point, but I thank you for the civility and I hope we all come out of this somehow.
