Summary
Former CIA Director Leon Panetta warned that Trump’s return to the White House could embolden Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, giving him a “blank check” in the Middle East and increasing the risk of war with Iran.
Panetta expressed concern that Trump would support Netanyahu’s aggressive stance against Iran without restraint, potentially worsening regional instability.
Panetta also predicted Trump might allow Russia to retain parts of Ukraine if he returns to office, though he doubted Trump’s negotiation skills.
He criticized Trump’s approach to foreign policy, suggesting Trump would be inclined to “capitulate” to authoritarian leaders, which may not sit well with some Republicans.
Congratulations, idealists. You definitely stopped the genocide by refusing to vote for Harris and urging others to do likewise. A+ job.
Oh he’ll help end the genocide alright. You can’t genocide a people that’s already wiped off the planet.
ukraine is gonna get ‘helped’ similarly. putin will have a free pass once the u.s. aid stops. i don’t think the other nato countries or the e.u. can cover that, especially long-term.
I hope as soon as US aid stops, they launch everything they have at major Russian cities.
right? they’re holding back for conditional western aid. as soon as the aid ends those conditions mean nothing.
Why would this be different from right now? If they could feasibly end the war they way, they absolutely would, and id absolutely condone it.
Because as far as I know Ukrain hasn’t been committing war crimes with western supplied arms.
I’ve always said they could ignore all conditions by saying there’s Hamas tunnels under the Kremlin.
I’m pretty sure it’s the most documented war of all time by now, we’d know. The Israeli war is much younger and it was readily apparent when the war crimes started. I’m pretty sure that’s why a lot of countries like to go dark from the internet when they kick up their bullshit.
I truly cannot grasp how uninformed one has to be to claim to be for Palestinians but think helping Trump’s odds was strategically better. Such profound ignorance is on par with maga, themselves.
On another note I want absolutely nothing to do with Mehdi Hasan. I supported him for quite some time but he got tunnel vision to such a degree he ended up thinking completely irrationally and contributing to the problem. He’s venturing into Jill Stein territory for me.
thats okay, you just need to look at harris and the dnc for your answers. apparently streams of articles, local representatives speaking up, members of the diplomatic core speaking out and they amazing decided that ‘yes, genocide is the answer to our electoral struggles’
it is definitely baffling in a tight race tossing 25 electoral points in the trash could be construed as a ‘good decision for palestinians.’ but here we are and thats what they did.
Now the world is going to suffer because of their hubris. enjoy. maybe next time tell your candidate to get a backbone to do the right thing and you need to grasp human nature.
go check out democracynow gaza section. maybe you can get some perspective on exactly how kamala/biden and general media have been gaslighting you. Everytime a hamas leader was murdered and harris would say ‘now we can achieve a ceasefire’ she was gaslighting you. a ceasefire with the release of hostages had been agreed to by hamas for months since may. Every time she said she would work towards a ceasefire, she was gaslighting you.
the palestinians were fucked no matter who won.
But harris had the option to potentially win if she was willing to:
- throw biden under the bus policy wise.
- commit to upholding american laws w/ respect to isreal.
- commit to keeping kahn as head of FTC.
- commit and campaign on actually fighting corporations.
but noooo. its the voters fault for harris being absolutely dog shit both morally and policy wise.
Binary choice.
Either Trump or Harris would win.
Harris better on literally every issue from climate change and LGBTQ+ rights and Women’s rights, to Ukraine and yes even marginally Gaza, itself.
We had a choice to help one or the other, and we chose the guy who is worse on every one of these issues. The GOP and Putin thank you for your service.
At the end of the day, these uncommitted voters contributed to the problem because they lacked the capacity to think strategically in their voting and lacking comprehension of the FPTP voting system we have. They seem to lack the fundamental understanding that there was a competing electoral group that Harris needed to obtain, like the large Jewish community in these key battleground states like Pennsylvania. Damned if she did; damned if she didn’t.
Golly, it’s almost like there’s a reason why Musk dumped $75 million dollars in attack ads with directly opposite messages, targeting both Muslim and Jewish communities in Pennsylvania at the same time? Were you aware of this? Evidently not.
So while Harris pushed for more aid into Gaza, sought a two-state solution, sought a permanent ceasefire, tell me… What did Trump promise? Oh yeah… “Finish the job.” Again, good luck.
No, I’m about 10 years ahead of you with the Democracy Now and 3rd party crap. I’ve been down that road long ago, my friend. Hopefully one day you’ll wise up, too.
Okay my man look at the margins. The anti-genocide people could’ve all voted and it wouldn’t have flipped a single state outside of Michigan. And the thing is: Harris lost before Michigan even finished counting. So yeah, you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
The anti-genocide people could’ve all voted and it wouldn’t have flipped a single state outside of Michigan.
See, if you’d said the anti-genocide people who protest voted could’ve all voted for Harris, you might’ve had a point.
But turnout in this election for the Democratic candidate was significantly decreased, and an uncertain number of those were anti-genocide.
Abstaining gave Trump the presidency. Abstaining for what reason varies, but Gaza was clearly an issue for some to stay home.
This is one of the excuses they are giving rather than accept any culpability whatsoever. “Even if we voted for Harris, Trump would still have won.”
Culpability for what? Nothing is forcing Biden and Harris to support such atrocities. Nothing forced them to abandon the left and the working class and cater to the right at every opportunity. If you want to point fingers, why don’t you start with the actual candidate leading the campaign, who consciously made all these decisions, and the party leaders backing her?
Was 2016 not enough of a wakeup call? Was the near loss in 2020 not a wakeup call? Here we are in 2024, repeating the same old song and dance, and people are still digging their heels in thinking that moving further and further right is a winning strategy for the Democrats and it’s everyone else’s fault when it doesn’t work again and again and again.
Maybe the party leadership will finally pull their heads out of their asses after this, but I won’t hold my breath. They’ll probably pick someone like Joe Manchin to run in 2028 and then wonder where it all went wrong once again when he loses to someone like Ted Cruz or Ron DeSantis.
Culpability for what?
Maybe handing all three branches of a nuclear power to literal fascists?
Maybe the party leadership will finally pull their heads out of their asses after this, but I won’t hold my breath. They’ll probably pick someone like Joe Manchin to run in 2028…
You really don’t grasp what has has transpired here do you? You think that those of us who have been ringing the alarms are just overreacting and it’s going to be business as usual?
Maybe handing all three branches of a nuclear power to literal fascists?
I did that? The Supreme Court was already under control of the fascists because the DNC rolled over and allowed the Republicans to take the nomination away from Obama a year before the election. They again rolled over and allowed Trump to nominate yet another justice weeks before the election. In my district we voted in a blue congresswoman and had no senators on the ballot. Are these losses around the rest of the country my fault, too, or the fault of the people running those campaigns?
You really don’t grasp what has has transpired here do you? You think that those of us who have been ringing the alarms are just overreacting and it’s going to be business as usual?
How exactly were you ringing the alarm bells? By telling everyone to vote for Biden and then Harris? By telling everyone the obvious about what a piece of shit Trump is? How did that work out for us?
I’ve been ringing the alarm bells about how terrible the Dems have been performing and all the shitty policy they’ve been supporting (genocide, the rich, the right) and got so much pushback. I’ve been called a shill, a republican in disguise, an idiot, and everything else under the sun and look how things turned out for us. You supported a losing strategy from a party full of neoliberals that doesn’t give two shits about you or anyone else and now you want to point fingers. As I said before, how could it not be more clear after losing or nearly losing this many elections in a row that the DNC and their leadership is the problem?
Then he will be held to the same account Harris was.
What are you even talking about? Harris is the Vice President. Exactly what do you think her job responsibilities and powers are?
She said she would not have changed a single decision that was made during the Biden administration. Biden said that she was in 100% agreement with every decision made. Which means she agreed to the current conditions
Dude, you really need to just move on from Biden and Kamala. They lost and aren’t going to be in office much longer. Trump is the threat.
And once he takes office, he will get the same type of scrutiny from me that Biden and Harris has. until January 20th the focus is on Biden and Harris.
I really hope you find solace in the idea that Harris and Trump would be equally bad for the world as Trump throws America into the garbage and tries to take the planet with it.
Do you have any idea how much CO2 biden’s proxy wars have dumped into the atmosphere? How many chip manufacturers were given environmental exemptions for chip manufacturing? The actions from Democrats mirror the actions from Republicans. The only difference is that Republicans say all of those things out loud
Again, I hope you find solace in the idea that Trump and Harris are exactly the same when things get really awful. I’m sure you’ll feel much better about yourself not voting for her.
I find solace in not allowing the continued rightward march of Democrats. Liberals are 100% to blame for our current conditions for never holding their own people accountable. At their current pace the DNC will be on par with people like McConnell in a few years.
Waiiiiit, are you saying that not voting Kamala didn’t magically stop the genocide in Gaza???
That it only accelerates it, like I and other people have been saying for months???
WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING?!
I got banned from a community saying this as calmly as possible XD Idk i feel like theses tankies who were overwhelmingly hostile are either shills or hypocrits who just want to hurt the big bad capitalist, short and long term consequences be damned. (Tankies=/=Leftists just a reminder)
But thank God we saved Palestine from the evil black lady right? /s
“We stood up for our PRINCIPLES!!!”
– screamed over the sound of brown people being exterminated
Iran can defend itself. Homeless children can’t.
Good thing your party stuck to their guns and didn’t compromise on committing genocide. Then you wouldn’t be able to be smug about losing to a convicted rapist and felon.
You might find out soon what genocide actually looks like and then you can wipe those fake tears with your useless virtue signalling. Clown
Haha genocide is not some kind of spectrum, it’s the most horrific crime a person can commit. So no, I won’t. SeE ReAl GeNOciDe. I’M ALREADY SEEING IT. All from a party that thinks I’m stupid enough to believe they’re for justice and peace
So outside of Dems learning a lesson which is now yesterdays news. Do you believe Palestinians are in a better place now Trumps is taking over?
I didn’t vote for Trump either. And it’s the Dems that blocked progressive candidates like Bernie from office.
Do you think by telling voters like me to eat shit about Gaza that they’re better off than if they had actually intervened in Israel’s genocide?
No but it’s about end results and being savvy about applying what little influence you have and thinking a step ahead. Palestinians are going to be worse off now, Trump has stated before the election that Israel can do what it wants to get the job done. How do you think Trump would handle any ongoing protests at the university’s, etc. A man just itching to deploy troops to shoot protestors.
You can blame the dems all you like but voting 3rd party or staying at home has assisted Trump back into power and brought in the loons with him that think war in the middle east will bring the rapture.
He’s going to make American, Ukrainian and Palestinian lives far worse. But yeah I guess the dem leadership has learned a lesson now they are going back to their comfortable lives that most likely won’t be impacted by any of this.
At least under the Dems you could have continued the protests, continued the pressure for peace.
If you compromise on genocide then you are not a political agent, you’re a sheep that can be herded with enough pressure.
You keep using that triangulation bullshit because your party has been using it to goad their own base into voting for far right policies OE absolutely pathetic band aids.
We’re not falling for it anymore and we’re going to fight against genocide without your worthless party.
Whew! Good thing the moral purity brigade shunned Kamala Harris.
Didn’t you know trump will stop the genocide…by writing a check so large that Israel completely removes Palestinians from the map… can’t have a genocide of Palestinians if there are no more Palestinians.
Check mate libruls
Trump voters: “Trump is the most peaceful president ever. We need to bring the defence spending to Ukraine home. America first”.
Trump is elected and inevitably drags the US into yet another war in in the Middle East
Trump voters: Pikachu face
Nah. Just kidding about that last part. It was all just empty rhetoric to justify the grift and looting all the way down as the country burns to the ground in the background.
Trump is very isolationist. I’d be quite surprised if he committed to any conflict directly. Funding Israel to fight for him however…
I find it odd when someone says Trump is this or Trump is that as if he’s consistent on anything. His absurd narcissism is the only consistent thing about him. You can bet your ass he would drag us into a war if it would stroke his ego in some way.
That is what makes him so uniquely dangerous. He has no ideology to speak of. His focus shifts back and forth so often that trying to predict exactly what he’s going to do is impossible. You can say with certainty that he won’t be motivated by any sort of desire for the public good but that’s about as specific as you can get until he starts doing something.
Seriously, it’s amazing that more people don’t understand that Trump does only what Trump thinks will benefit Trump, even if it’s just benefiting the ego.
Nothing yet happened but you’re already crying like it did.
Believe it or not, he’ll probably cut subsidies to Israel, get a peace deal in Ukraine (yeah, by giving his buddy Putin parts of the country), and he surely won’t start any war with iran.
And all you’ll be able to do is continue fuming on the internet while being factually wrong. And in the end it won’t be a surprise to really anyone but you that your party will lose electrons over and over.
What is fucked is that no matter what happens. They will insist that it was all the Democrat’s fault and all the fault of communists and socialists. They will be believed both despite the absurdity of it all and because of the absurdity of it.
in reality it was the 20 million voters that abstained from voting this election.
Israel will lose that war.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I don’t think you understand the capabilities difference - Israel has the nuclear option if they are threatened existentially. But lets take that off the table a moment.
Iran’s capabilities are their missiles, manufacturing capabilities. Their Refineries, and strategic energy reserves are in known locations and are the lynch pin of Iran’s economy. And finally, the Nuclear R&D facilities are in known places. All of those are the targets - and Israel absolutely has the capacity to take it out- just not the strong justification.
If Iran continues striking Israel, Israel is going to feel the pressure to decapitate Iran as a threat to them.
The fall out of this is more interesting:
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China loses access to Iranian Oil for the short to mid term - it will take time to restore capabilities.
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Russia loses access to Iranian missiles - without production capabilities, and depleted stocks, Iran will not be able to sell missiles to Russia let alone drones.
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Iran’s economy will be in shambles - that could very well open the door to coup or revolt.
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Iran would unload as many missiles as it possibly could - which could be devastating. But that would come down to just how many interceptor missiles Israel would have available, along with other air defence options.
If you want a “Why would trump support this” - there you have it. It reaffirms US obligation to support it’s allies, It puts economic pressure on china, and denies Russia access to weapons - which should help push them to the negotiating table.
In reality, I would more expect Iran to back off. Then again - With Israel obliterating Iran proxies, Iran may feel the pressure to complete a nuclear deterrent and Israel may end up wanting to decapitate Iran as a threat BEFORE they gain that capability… what a bloody mess.
That’s all under the assumption that Iran didn’t secretly develop nukes, or bought them from Russia or North Korea and just keeps it completely hidden to turn the tides at the last possible second.
Lets, for a moment, presume Iran has Nuclear weapons - and uses them. Lets just remind that Israel is known to have at LEAST 90 nuclear warheads, and several of those missiles are likely prepped ready pointed at Iran.
To put it simply: That move DOES NOT end well. If anything, it ends strictly worse then simply accepting that Israel crippled Iran’s infrastructure. And any hope for normalization and opening trade up on the global market outside of China, Russia, and North Korea becomes basically zero until the regime is overthrown. Even worse - if Israel opts for nuclear strikes to follow up their conventional ones after being attacked with nuclear weapons,there is a good chance it’s not just several years of repair work, but decades of set back that could easily lead to mass scale discontentment and open revolt against the regime by several factions simultaneously.
The reality is: Israel is not a force capable of sustained occupation of an entity like Iran. But they are a force capable of a decapitating strike. And the entire reason is, Israel has VERY LIMITED force projection capabilities - and, because of a lack of land boarder with Iran, would need cooperation with other states that may not be thrilled with opening themselves up to direct conflict in the short to mid term. The only real reason Israel has room to do a strike is 1. It’s retaliatory, and 2. entities like Saudi Arabia are liable to be just fine with their regional rivals basically offing each other, as Saudi Arabia is in a MUCH better position to take advantage in the event of Iran’s regime collapsing.
Which brings us to: Just because you have nuclear weapons, does not mean you use them. The reality is, nuclear weapons are a weapon of last resort - unless you are France, and then it’s a nuclear warning shot… Because France is just different.
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Take your bow single-issue voters and protest voters. We tried to warn you.
You did this.
Nah the DNC did this by abandoning their principles and base in a failed attempt to appease conservatives and some foreign government.
Arguing that people should just support, fund, and arm human slaughter, and likening it to something basic like marijuana legalization or taxes, all so you can win a contest is fucking insane coming from the supposed left, but it really just shows how far to the right the party has gone.
You did this.
So… let’s get this straight. Trump won because he got more votes. I voted against him, you didn’t.
Yet it’s my fault.
That’s some gargantuan big-brain logic there bud.
Who said I didn’t vote against him? You’re just creating a strawman to validate your argument even though you couldn’t be further from the truth. The DNC ran yet another terrible campaign and alienated a bunch of their voters. The people still defending this insanity that has happened almost 3 elections in a row are the people to blame. Are you defending the 2016 and 2024 campaigns? Do you approve of the neck and neck 2020 campaign? How many elections are you willing to lose in a vain attempt at sticking to a losing strategy?
Did you vote for Harris or Stein?
At some point some people were even saying Harris is worse than the same. For your sanity, I only hope you don’t have family in the Middle East.
Rashida Tlaib’s district is a prime example of this, she kept her seat by a wide margin while Dems lost the state. They decided to ignore their voter base and suffered the consequences.
I heard the “but there won’t be any of these wars once Trump is back” argument several times.
I would usually revel in watching the walls come down around someone’s stupid opinions, but in this case, we as a country have to suffer for it.
Really shows how stupid and gullible the American electorate is. War is a classic “Wag the Dog” tactic.
So no real change from Biden or Harris then?
Yes, apart from the blank check part and Trump telling Netanyahu to “finish the job” on national TV, no real change at all.
Oh, and also the impending genocides of brown and queer people, but I was told before the election that those weren’t important and/or wouldn’t happen.
Biden and Harris was/is still finishing the job. Trump may have said it out loud, but it’s happening right now.
Harris abandoned queers, brown people, and the entire progressive side of the party and needed to pay the consequences.
I hope those right wing votes they courted were worth their efforts
Harris abandoned queers, brown people, and the entire progressive side of the party and needed to pay the consequences.
No, the queer community, brown people, disabled people, etc will now pay the consequences. gg
This brown queer person says that Harris was the wrong person for the job, we have our own agency and don’t need liberals to speak on our behalf. We’re capable of speaking for ourselves. Many Brown queer people that I’m familiar with felt the same and voted accordingly
Well, they know who you are, and you better believe that you are on several of their lists. So hopefully you will be able to take solace in the fact that you “took the high road” during the last real election this country will ever have, when you’re huddled up in some white person’s basement, hiding from the government.
So brave of you to try and come white knight for us as our protector. What would we do without white CIS people to guide us?
How would that be different than the current plan under Biden?
Someone I can work with and eventually break? Or the racist fascist who wants to annihilate the brown people? I guess they’re the same!
-idiot Americans
Ahh. The old ‘push Biden left’ strategy. Didn’t seem to work very well, considering Biden is helping commit a genocide as we speak.
I remember even when Biden was VP I kept reminding people what a horrible person he is. How he’s one of the biggest proponents of the murderous, racist drug war, and the police militarization that came with it. Biden has blood on his hands. And when I would criticize him then and when I said he was a terrible candidate, you guys downvoted me and called me a right winger, because I was not “left enough”, nobody ever is anymore for you guys. You’re authoritarian hard left and you refuse allies and friends, you want everyone to follow your view to the letter or they’re a “Nazi” even if it’s a white leftist calling a person of color a Nazi. You guys are insane.
As a brown American?
Go fuck yourself.
You hold random people online more accountable than the politicians you support. Peak bootlicking behavior.
