• feine_seife@feddit.de
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    9 months ago

    If you would be keeping up with the news you would’ve known that, they wanted to discuss neutrality,

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60901024

    but then peace negations have been stalled on the ukrainan side, per request of the Brits.

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-pressured-zelenskyy-ditch-peace-talks-russia-ukrainian-paper https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-must-not-be-pressured-into-bad-peace-deal-says-uk-pm-johnson-2022-06-07/

    And after that they forbade em by law.

    https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/zelensky-signs-law-declaring-talks-with-putin-impossible/

    Hence, no Putin alone cannot stop the war. There is still too much pressure on all sides to keep the war going.

    https://www.vox.com/world/2022/12/16/23507640/dc-party-invite-military-contractors-money-ukraine-russia-war-us

    While poor guys on both sides are paying the highest price for someones wallet to be bigger.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-uncovers-mass-fraud-weapons-procurement-security-service-2024-01-27/

        • GrundlButter@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 months ago

          I imagine roughly how America ended the Vietnam war. Russia would have to initiate some willingness to stop the war with favorable conditions, and then talks could start. That’s actually right there in the articles you linked with BoJo in them.

          It’d likely take nothing less than ceasefire without conditions, returning all occupied Ukrainian territory, including Crimea. And if Russia doesn’t like that, I’d love to see people start talking about historical borders again and we can joke about restoring the empire of Kiev.

          And then, just like the Vietnam war, they can strut around saying they didn’t lose the war, they just agreed on favorable terms.

          Edit: Actually, I may even be a bit too pessimistic here. There’s a low, but still possible chance that the tucker interview could be that message. I invite nothing less but the opportunity for Putin to publicly surrender. It would be a great thing.

            • GrundlButter@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              9 months ago

              Haha, right you are. It just goes to show how silly this “historic border” talk is as a justification for land grabs. Why would the argument exist for giving up Crimea if it also didn’t come with the other historic borders. Did Russia even offer their portion of historical lands? Rude lol.

              • feine_seife@feddit.de
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                9 months ago

                Well it does. Russia is a federation composed of states with they’re historic borders.

                • GrundlButter@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  9 months ago

                  I’m honestly not entirely sure what you’re getting at there, are you suggesting that they should join Russia and be a part of the federation instead of retaining their independence?

                  • feine_seife@feddit.de
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                    9 months ago

                    Do you mean Ukraine? No. I would prefer a three alliance sollution, where Baltic states, poland, Ukraine, serbia, and some other countries join a military alliance. Strong enough to stand on they’re own. Wich is neutral towards NATO and Russia. Hence there would be stratigic balance between NATO and Russia. Russia would not bee needing to fear NATO nuclear weapons on their border while NATO would have a puffer zone towards Russia. This Baltic Alliance could be the trading crossroads while also having much closer ties and stronger garantees to each other. ( there is a common fear that if one of the smaller NATO countries would be attacked that article 5 wouldnt be enacted upon due to the “insignificance“ of the smaller country. )

                    Additionaly if Russia or NATO tried taking their independence they could join up for an alliance with the other one.

                  • feine_seife@feddit.de
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                    9 months ago

                    Well either keep those that are. Or kill more people to have em moved. Wich you like more?

    • rdri@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Putin alone cannot stop the war

      He can stop the war because he can command Russian army to leave Ukraine.

      • feine_seife@feddit.de
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        9 months ago

        OK and what about the civilans living there?

        Do you know that they now have Russian citizensship and under Ukrainian Law will be either put in prisons or forced out?

        • rdri@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          This is not something that can prevent Putin from removing army from a non Russian territory. If he is not an idiot, that is.

            • Beemo Dinosaurierfuß@feddit.de
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              9 months ago

              You essentially argue that the brutal invader has to win his illegal invasion during which they bomb and kill countless civilians, because otherwise other civilians that support the illegal and brutal invasion might suffer some consequences?

              You can’t be for real, noone could argue this in good faith.

              • feine_seife@feddit.de
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                9 months ago

                Countless civilian is wrong as I have shown. Compared to other modern wars its pritty tame. In Gaza already the same amout of civilians got killed that im Ukraine over the 3-4 years.

                civilians that support the illegal and brutal invasion might suffer some consequences?

                Like who? Doctors that help the dying? So before Russia was there they had to help the local village people. After Russia came they had to tell em take a hike?

                I don’t know how you can argue, in good faith that doctors, policemen, teachers, townhall workers, etc. Who just continued workig in they’re communities should be punshed.

                • frunch@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Fucking love the whataboutism on display here. They didn’t kill as many civilians as ______ so no harm, no foul.

                  Fuck off with that garbage take

                  • feine_seife@feddit.de
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                    9 months ago

                    Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in “what about…?”) is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense of the original accusation.

                    What I did not do. I told you the claim of genocide does not apply as the amount of civilian casualties is lower that other similar scaled modern wars. Who did I accuse in my counter accusation?

                • Beemo Dinosaurierfuß@feddit.de
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                  9 months ago

                  As the prodigy once said.
                  Invaders must die.

                  As I say.
                  Collaborateurs will get what they have coming.

                  Doctors have a duty to help wounded defenders, policemen have a duty to protect citizens from invaders, teachers must not teach invaders propaganda, townhall workers must not support the logistics and infrastructure of the invader.

                  If you do you are a traitor and should be punished.

                  If you are an invader, you must die.

                  Und wenn du mir auf der Straße über den Weg läufst und deine Lügen und Propaganda verbreitest, wirst du sehen wie ernst ich das meine.

            • rdri@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Putin withdrawing army from Ukraine will cause chaos instead of peaceful life - a chaos that would never happen if he continues killing people in this war.

              Sure grandma, now let’s get you to your bed.

              • feine_seife@feddit.de
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                9 months ago

                OK. just look at real word examples of the US Afganistan withdrawal. How many civilans do you think got killed? How many deliberately? Rewatch the videos, there is enough videos of people fleeing from the approching army, ( wich noted, is supported by the majority of afganistan ) And dying in they’re attemnt. If you want that what happens in Kabul. You apperently don’t want what is good for.the civilans.

                • rdri@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Are you kidding? You are saying the war is good for civillians.

                  “Let me invade your country and hold your territories and people hostage so you’ll understand that if I stop the aggression then those people will most likely die. I will proceed with my aggression and hold more of your territories and people hostage, and you’ll thank me for keeping those people safe” - Putin, probably.

                  Disgusting

              • feine_seife@feddit.de
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                9 months ago

                Nice. Establish some traitor purges next. But nice try Stalin, go kil some people you disagree with somewhere else.

        • Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          Are you kidding me? Whenever Russia was forced back, torture chambers, deported children, rape and violence done to civilians and mass graves were discovered. And it was Russia that forced the russian passport onto those people. To think that Ukraine would just deport its own citizens into the hell they just were freed from is absolutely ridiculous. To think that the civilians would want to hold on to the russian passport is ridiculous.

          • feine_seife@feddit.de
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            9 months ago

            Mass civial graves where fake. German TV stations showed clearly military graves and claimed it was civilian. I saw the bodies.

            Deported children. What would you do with children in a warzone? Shitty but better then dying due to shellings.

            Torture chambers? Yes just as anyone does.

            Mass rapes where fake due to the Ukraine’s generals attorney not being able to find any evidence of them. ( also they then fired the Ukrainian minister for humanitarian right due to constantly making those up)

            Violence was and constantly is done to civilians on the Ukraine’s side. Just look at draft videos in Ukriane.

            To think that Ukraine would just deport its own citizens into the hell

            I don’t think it I souced it.

            • Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
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              9 months ago

              Mass civial graves where fake. German TV stations showed clearly military graves and claimed it was civilian. I saw the bodies.

              The UN, as useless as it is, has released a report on the warcrimes committed by Russia.
              Wer der BILD glaubt, hat von Anfang an verloren.

              Deported children. What would you do with children in a warzone? Shitty but better then dying due to shellings.

              The ICC has taken on a lawsuit against Russia for child trafficking. Fun fact, the admission from the Russian side makes this easiest case to proceed, as per the lead ICC prosecutor:

              JL: You’ve described Ukraine as a crime scene. The crimes are widespread and extensive. You don’t have infinite resources. So how do you focus the ICC efforts in Ukraine?

              KK: You make decisions, which must be informed by many factors: the gravity, the availability of evidence and the need to work at the speed of relevance. This is exactly what we’ve done in relation to Ukraine, in relation to the public warrants, because of the admissions effectively made by individuals in the Russian Federation, particularly President Putin and Children’s Rights Commissioner Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova. We investigated crimes against children and we move forward. And that’s the basic approach anywhere else: we look at the most serious crimes. When there’s more than one serious crime, we also look at the types of evidence available and start moving. And then we can go deeper, if and when necessary and if and when justified by the evidence.

              Torture chambers? Yes just as anyone does.

              Here is the sourced Wikiledia article for Russian torture chambers. There is no article describing Ukrainian torture chambers. I wonder why that is? /s

              Mass rapes where fake due to the Ukraine’s generals attorney not being able to find any evidence of them.

              The allegation that Russia uses rape systematically couldn’t be substantiated. That is something entirely different than claiming that rapes aren’t happening.

              Here is just one article of many, interviewing victims.

              Violence was and constantly is done to civilians on the Ukraine’s side. Just look at draft videos in Ukriane.

              Do we want to compare draft videos now? Ok, here is my entry:

              https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1855307/russian-conscripts-stripped-ukraine-war-latest

        • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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          9 months ago

          You ask them if they want to keep their russian citizenship or throw it on the pile of burning illegal passports.