“Officials said that Israel and Egypt were prepared to let foreigners leave the Strip which is under heavy Israeli bombardment, but Hamas had refused.”

  • danhakimi@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    There’s got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza. I hope the international community can come together to find a way. I definitely wouldn’t leave it to Israel lol.

    Israel is going to try its best. Nobody else is going to touch this with a ten foot pole. Most of the international community isn’t even willing to condemn Hamas, let alone go in there and get rid of them. Israel literally calls them up in the buildings they’re going to bomb and says “please evacuate this building by this time!” You can’t make that shit up.

    If Egypt or the UN wants to take care of Gaza after the war, and actually make sure they don’t get weapons, and actually de-radicalize them (current schools in Gaza are not great at deradicalization), you name it, I’m sure Israel would be on board with that. They didn’t blockade Gaza for fun, blockades are expensive. But burying the dead from the constant attacks of a Hamas with infinite weaponry is fucking worse.

    • TinyPizza@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      You’ve lost the support of the international community and even the US is distancing itself from the approach you are taking. This is a fools errand to try to extract a part of a society by direct force (see Vietnam, Afghanistan <-two different super powers made that mistake). What this will be is an excuse to murder as judge, jury and executioner as you move to further subjugate a civilian population behind closed doors. Literal closed walls in Gaza’s case. These kids have grown up knowing nothing but what the adults tell them and looking at the walls that keep them in.

      “You name it, I’m sure Israel would be on board with that” How about just releasing the Prisoners for the hostages and going home?

      “We spoke bluntly and made it clear to the prime minister in no uncertain terms that a comprehensive deal based on the ‘everyone for everyone’ principle is a deal the families would consider, and has the support of all of Israel,” Meirav Leshem Gonen, mother of Romi Gonen, who was kidnapped from the Supernova dance festival, said on behalf of the families in a news conference following the meeting.

      Netanyahu was asked about such a deal at his Saturday news conference, and acknowledged he discussed the option with the families.
      “I think that elaborating on this will not help achieve our goal. In the meeting with the families, I felt emotionally helpless,” he said.

      So maybe not everything. Please don’t judge Dan for not responding, He blocked me an hour ago as he didn’t like my response to the justification of the 3,000 children that have been bombed to death in Gaza.

      edit: deleted two words I accidentally repeated

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        He probably blocked you because you argue in bad faith and lie about your historical examples - like pretending Vietnam wasn’t a war of two established, professional militaries just as Korea was.

        “You name it, I’m sure Israel would be on board with that” How about just releasing the Prisoners for the hostages and going home?

        This, for instance, is an insane proposition and you throw it out like it’s the obvious good choice.

          • Guydht@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I mean, some of those 1,000 prisoners were active in that recent oct.7 massacre, so I guess that Israel learned from its mistakes. As much as it pains them, they can’t effort giving Hamas forces, as they’ll regret it tenfold later.

            • Sparlock@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              If Israel was truly worried about regretting it later they wouldn’t be growing a whole new generation of people that have every reason to hate them. Their actions over the decades speak FAR louder than the words they use to seem like they are trying, as does the body count of innocents.

              • Guydht@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                For more than the last decade Israel spent 0 efforts on raising the Gaza population and completely left them to run their own educational/inner governmental funding. That proved to be the worst mistake they could ever do, as that educational program is pure hate fuel for religious extremists and the government funding (which btw is a lot of funding from foreigners) was used for rockets and anti-tank ammunition instead of safe houses for civilians. Heck, the only safe zones are the underground tunnels, which are only used for Hamas fighters.

                All that means is that Israel should’ve either completely hammer down on stuff going in, and truly be like china murdering muslims, or completely run the region themselves, which is basically colonialism. Which option is good? None. Who can be blamed for that? The Palestinians leaders.

                Don’t get me wrong, Israel’s leaders also chose a very bad option of leaving it alone and letting it grow into a monster, but let’s face it - they had no good options on what to do with Gaza. So blaming everything that’s happening purely on Israel, is just unfair. What could they have done to prevent this?

                • Sparlock@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I could not declare genocide.

                  Do I really need to go find every quote from Bibi and Israeli Officials declaring their intent?

                  Not do decades of persecution PRIOR to Hamas even existing.

                  Not have Israel fund Hamas for years.

                  Not drop bombs on refugee camps.

                  Not cut off food, water, electricity.

                  Not shoot peaceful protesters.

                  Not kill journalists.

                  Not kill clearly marked medics.

                  Do I really need to go on?

                  “What could they have done to prevent this?”

                  Fuck
                  off.

                  • Guydht@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Not doing any of this stuff would’ve meant a Palestinian state in Gaza led by Hamas.

                    Such a state would’ve killed many more jews.

                    Is it really that hard to see such obvious facts? What action has Palestinian ever done to warrant faith from the Israeli side that they wouldn’t get massacres if Palestinians had a state.

                    It’s as simple as that. Make Israelis not feel threatened, make a state. Do make Israelis feel threatened, get oppression.

                    And no other country in the world would do differently when feeling threatened. Some would do actual genocide and have 2 million dead.

      • Guydht@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I mean, exchanging prisoners means freeing those who massacred on oct.7, and come on, Israel is not that stupid to let them run free again. That exchange will bite them tenfold in years to come if they do it (and they realized it now, hence they don’t agree to it)

    • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      The debacle prompted criticism even from allies who said Netanyahu had facilitated Hamas’s grip on Gaza as part of a strategy to divide Palestinians.

      “Since coming to power in 2009, Netanyahu has built up Hamas as an alternative to the Palestinian Authority,” wrote Yoav Limor, the military affairs correspondent for Israel Hayom, a normally pro-Netanyahu newspaper. “He was warned countless times that this was a dangerous plan: instead of bolstering the pragmatic elements, he strengthened those that will never recognize Israel’s existence.”

      Even normally pro-Israeli news outlets are condemning what is happening. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/israeli-tanks-on-outskirts-of-gaza-city-with-key-road-cut

    • SlikPikker@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      Israel doesn’t really want to be rid of Hamas.

      Their investment in the group has already paid dividends.

    • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      If Egypt or the UN wants to take care of Gaza after the war, and actually make sure they don’t get weapons, and actually de-radicalize them (current schools in Gaza are not great at deradicalization), you name it, I’m sure Israel would be on board with that.

      Basically turn them into a mini West bank; people with no means to defend themselves, constantly getting attacked by settlers and the police. Make them believe that this is normal and that they shouldn’t defend themselves on your way out.

      • danhakimi@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        There are no settlements in Gaza. In 2005, there were no settlements, there was no blockade, there was nothing but an opportunity for peace, and then, they elected Hamas.

        If you’re afraid that Egypt or the UN is going to invite settlers in, that Egyptian police or the UN police are going to attack them, you might want to reevaluate your world view.

        • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Let’s discuss another place inside of Palestine where there is an opportunity for peace; the West bank ruled by the Fatah government, which recognizes “Israel”. They also have no weapons that they can realistically use against settlers and the invading army.

          Here’s what happens in the West bank, settlements exist in the West bank, settlers murder people in the West bank, and the police are protecting settlers while they’re doing it.

          Gaza once was under the control of the PLO and Fatah, and there could’ve been peace, if not for Isn’trael opting to keep building settlements, encouraging people who’re being forced out of their homes to pick the more violent approach of Hamas. Which unlike negotiating with an occupying force, did get them to dismantle their disgusting settlements and leave to avoid losing more soldiers.

          • danhakimi@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            You’re dramatically oversimplifying the West Bank. It’s a military occupation, I’m not going to pretend it’s going well, but it’s going much better than Gaza, and peace talks there have been far more serious. The Olmert proposal was an exceedingly generous proposal, and the reason Abbas didn’t engage because, knowing that Hamas still had enough power that he couldn’t promise peace, not even with East Jerusalem, and especially not with any kind of land swaps. The core problem right now is just that Netanyahu’s government doesn’t actually want to make the situation better (and a lot of his —but that problem will resolve itself by Israel’s next election. His already low approval ratings have hit the gutter, and his coalition might not last much longer, although they might stick together while the war is going on.

    • Amaltheamannen@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      The first step to deradicalize them is to stop putting Palestinians in a concentration camp. Simple as.