“Officials said that Israel and Egypt were prepared to let foreigners leave the Strip which is under heavy Israeli bombardment, but Hamas had refused.”
“Israel blocks anyone and anything from going into or out of Gaza.”
You know Gaza has border with Egypt? That’s not possible
Oh damn, I just looked at a map, and Gaza also borders the ocean. Clearly people and goods can flow freely in/out of Gaza that way also. My mistake.
No. They don’t have access to their sea borders. They get shot if they go out too far.
Naive
But what about the Egyptian side, is Israel in your opinion blocking that too?
No. Egypt is blocking that. Egypt is paid inordinate amounts of money by the US to do so.
So it’s not just Israel
No it isn’t. Does it have to be? Do you think the Israeli government takes a neutral position on the Rafah border crossing? Israel is the primary prosecutor of this genocide. They are assisted and enabled largely by the US, which also dictates (client state) Egypt’s policies in this regard.
See first comment of this comment chain
There’s got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza. I hope the international community can come together to find a way. I definitely wouldn’t leave it to Israel lol.
It probably involves with allying with the PLO or some more secular faction of Palestinians, and Egypt. But they’d need to give something to them or else no one has a reason to support them unless they have some victories they can point to.
You could only ACTUALLY get rid of Hamas by getting rid of the current Israeli leadership, because even if you actually knocked out Hamas themselves, the Israeli leadership will just gin up a replacement Hamas to be their strawman in Gaza until they’ve bombed their way into settlerizing Gaza same way they’re doing to the West Bank.
There’s got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza.
There is a way, it’s just excruciatingly difficult and has no chance of happening.
People will excess wealth will need to give up some of that wealth so others can have more.
For example, increasing immigration limits to the US and giving refugees the means to contribute to society, such as housing and utilities. It shouldn’t just be the US, either. All nations with excess can pitch in to help. This can be done, but the hand-sitters among us are already chomping at the bit to tell us why it can’t.
There’s got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza. I hope the international community can come together to find a way. I definitely wouldn’t leave it to Israel lol.
Israel is going to try its best. Nobody else is going to touch this with a ten foot pole. Most of the international community isn’t even willing to condemn Hamas, let alone go in there and get rid of them. Israel literally calls them up in the buildings they’re going to bomb and says “please evacuate this building by this time!” You can’t make that shit up.
If Egypt or the UN wants to take care of Gaza after the war, and actually make sure they don’t get weapons, and actually de-radicalize them (current schools in Gaza are not great at deradicalization), you name it, I’m sure Israel would be on board with that. They didn’t blockade Gaza for fun, blockades are expensive. But burying the dead from the constant attacks of a Hamas with infinite weaponry is fucking worse.
You’ve lost the support of the international community and even the US is distancing itself from the approach you are taking. This is a fools errand to try to extract a part of a society by direct force (see Vietnam, Afghanistan <-two different super powers made that mistake). What this will be is an excuse to murder as judge, jury and executioner as you move to further subjugate a civilian population behind closed doors. Literal closed walls in Gaza’s case. These kids have grown up knowing nothing but what the adults tell them and looking at the walls that keep them in.
“You name it, I’m sure Israel would be on board with that” How about just releasing the Prisoners for the hostages and going home?
“We spoke bluntly and made it clear to the prime minister in no uncertain terms that a comprehensive deal based on the ‘everyone for everyone’ principle is a deal the families would consider, and has the support of all of Israel,” Meirav Leshem Gonen, mother of Romi Gonen, who was kidnapped from the Supernova dance festival, said on behalf of the families in a news conference following the meeting.
Netanyahu was asked about such a deal at his Saturday news conference, and acknowledged he discussed the option with the families.
“I think that elaborating on this will not help achieve our goal. In the meeting with the families, I felt emotionally helpless,” he said.So maybe not everything. Please don’t judge Dan for not responding, He blocked me an hour ago as he didn’t like my response to the justification of the 3,000 children that have been bombed to death in Gaza.
edit: deleted two words I accidentally repeated
He probably blocked you because you argue in bad faith and lie about your historical examples - like pretending Vietnam wasn’t a war of two established, professional militaries just as Korea was.
“You name it, I’m sure Israel would be on board with that” How about just releasing the Prisoners for the hostages and going home?
This, for instance, is an insane proposition and you throw it out like it’s the obvious good choice.
Israel has traded 1000 poisoners for a single soldier in the past why is it “an insane proposition” all of a sudden? https://www.cnn.com/2011/10/17/world/meast/israel-prisoner-swap-explainer/index.html
You sure can’t be consistent.
You keep quacking dude don’t blame us for noticing it.I mean, some of those 1,000 prisoners were active in that recent oct.7 massacre, so I guess that Israel learned from its mistakes. As much as it pains them, they can’t effort giving Hamas forces, as they’ll regret it tenfold later.
If Israel was truly worried about regretting it later they wouldn’t be growing a whole new generation of people that have every reason to hate them. Their actions over the decades speak FAR louder than the words they use to seem like they are trying, as does the body count of innocents.
For more than the last decade Israel spent 0 efforts on raising the Gaza population and completely left them to run their own educational/inner governmental funding. That proved to be the worst mistake they could ever do, as that educational program is pure hate fuel for religious extremists and the government funding (which btw is a lot of funding from foreigners) was used for rockets and anti-tank ammunition instead of safe houses for civilians. Heck, the only safe zones are the underground tunnels, which are only used for Hamas fighters.
All that means is that Israel should’ve either completely hammer down on stuff going in, and truly be like china murdering muslims, or completely run the region themselves, which is basically colonialism. Which option is good? None. Who can be blamed for that? The Palestinians leaders.
Don’t get me wrong, Israel’s leaders also chose a very bad option of leaving it alone and letting it grow into a monster, but let’s face it - they had no good options on what to do with Gaza. So blaming everything that’s happening purely on Israel, is just unfair. What could they have done to prevent this?
I mean, exchanging prisoners means freeing those who massacred on oct.7, and come on, Israel is not that stupid to let them run free again. That exchange will bite them tenfold in years to come if they do it (and they realized it now, hence they don’t agree to it)
The debacle prompted criticism even from allies who said Netanyahu had facilitated Hamas’s grip on Gaza as part of a strategy to divide Palestinians.
“Since coming to power in 2009, Netanyahu has built up Hamas as an alternative to the Palestinian Authority,” wrote Yoav Limor, the military affairs correspondent for Israel Hayom, a normally pro-Netanyahu newspaper. “He was warned countless times that this was a dangerous plan: instead of bolstering the pragmatic elements, he strengthened those that will never recognize Israel’s existence.”
Even normally pro-Israeli news outlets are condemning what is happening. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/israeli-tanks-on-outskirts-of-gaza-city-with-key-road-cut
The first step to deradicalize them is to stop putting Palestinians in a concentration camp. Simple as.
Memri TV is literally Israeli propaganda.
If Egypt or the UN wants to take care of Gaza after the war, and actually make sure they don’t get weapons, and actually de-radicalize them (current schools in Gaza are not great at deradicalization), you name it, I’m sure Israel would be on board with that.
Basically turn them into a mini West bank; people with no means to defend themselves, constantly getting attacked by settlers and the police. Make them believe that this is normal and that they shouldn’t defend themselves on your way out.
There are no settlements in Gaza. In 2005, there were no settlements, there was no blockade, there was nothing but an opportunity for peace, and then, they elected Hamas.
If you’re afraid that Egypt or the UN is going to invite settlers in, that Egyptian police or the UN police are going to attack them, you might want to reevaluate your world view.
Let’s discuss another place inside of Palestine where there is an opportunity for peace; the West bank ruled by the Fatah government, which recognizes “Israel”. They also have no weapons that they can realistically use against settlers and the invading army.
Here’s what happens in the West bank, settlements exist in the West bank, settlers murder people in the West bank, and the police are protecting settlers while they’re doing it.
Gaza once was under the control of the PLO and Fatah, and there could’ve been peace, if not for Isn’trael opting to keep building settlements, encouraging people who’re being forced out of their homes to pick the more violent approach of Hamas. Which unlike negotiating with an occupying force, did get them to dismantle their disgusting settlements and leave to avoid losing more soldiers.
You’re dramatically oversimplifying the West Bank. It’s a military occupation, I’m not going to pretend it’s going well, but it’s going much better than Gaza, and peace talks there have been far more serious. The Olmert proposal was an exceedingly generous proposal, and the reason Abbas didn’t engage because, knowing that Hamas still had enough power that he couldn’t promise peace, not even with East Jerusalem, and especially not with any kind of land swaps. The core problem right now is just that Netanyahu’s government doesn’t actually want to make the situation better (and a lot of his —but that problem will resolve itself by Israel’s next election. His already low approval ratings have hit the gutter, and his coalition might not last much longer, although they might stick together while the war is going on.
Israel doesn’t really want to be rid of Hamas.
Their investment in the group has already paid dividends.
I wonder what percentage of their rapidly diminishing military might is being used to block foreigners from leaving? seems like a poor allocation of resources… unless there’s something they dont want the foreigners to tell the outside world?
It’s not like they ever had a chance of winning considering their definition of winning is driving the Jews into the sea. Their whole purpose is to fuck shit up and cause maximum damage and this makes sense in that context.
that’s their endgame? how does that work when they’re surrounded on all sides (counting the sea)?
If you want an actual answer they want the Islamic world to unite and kill everyone else, it’s been a pretty constant theme for a while now from middle Eastern terror groups.
That’s why the fundamentalists in change (and not living in Gaza) wanted to commit an attack Israel could not ignore, nation’s like Saudi Arabia and Jordan we’re getting on too well with Israel and that would ruin their chances for a middle Eastern caliphate…
ah, a pipe dream then. gotcha. yeah, caliphates arent going to make a comeback.
Yes, they’re funding terrorism based on an absurd pipedream that they use to maintain their own power, sadly a very common story.
Not while America is willing to invade and bomb anyone that tries, and everyone around them when they do.
Pretty sure their definition of winning is not getting genocide by said Jews
Then think again. They literally say what their goal is - a forceful end to Israel. And that nothing less will be enough - and that they’ll keep killing civilians until that goal is met.
Hamas doesn’t need to do anything. All they have to do is say nobody’s getting out, which means the IDF can assume anyone running towards the exit is a terrorist making an attack. I think any foreign nationals that would ever travel to Gaza know better than to approach Israeli forces for help.
If there’s anyone that doesn’t want the outside world to know what’s up, ask the folks who recently cut off internet access to Gaza. Who was it? It wasn’t Hamas.
Do you seriously think Israel shut off internet to hide what’s inside? Do you know satellites exist? Do you know cameras exist? How in the world was that preventing anyone from seeing into Gaza?
“palestianians”. use. human. fucking. shields. fuck. fuck. fuck. fuck. fuck.
Israel will strike an area and kill hundreds of people. If there are males 16-30 killed they will say they were militants often, and that the civilians were collateral damage due to the use of proximity shielding. They do not go in and verify whether or not the people killed were militants. This is an age old tactic, the US would do the same to shift blame for atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I know as far back as the Vietnam War too. I’m sure even before that
As an atheist, I’ve generally avoided that area of the world. I’m quite happy to not be directly involved in this stupidity.
cowards like you said the same thing while they were shipping jews to auschwitz in cattle cars. nothing ever changes.
“Palestinians” never met a human shield they wouldn’t call their own
Fun fact! ^He puts Palestinians in quotation marks because he doesn’t believe they have any right to the land, can’t claim it as a real country and because he thinks none of them are civilians and are actually all terrorists. The more you know!
Is the Telegraph a good source for info on this?
