At least 16 people are dead in multiple shootings in Lewiston, Maine Wednesday night, according to multiple law enforcement sources. Follow here for the latest.
Sure they will. The millions of children who went to school each day knowing they were the target of domestic terrorists and were not just sold out by Republicans and the gun lobby but spat on by the pro-gun crowd.
They’ll abolish the second amendment, condemning it to the history books with all the other shitty things America did like the genocide of the native population and the enslavement of black people.
Whoa whoa whoa. We haven’t even gotten to thoughts and prayers. Then comes mental health. Last is the “it’s too soon to talk about this”. Then the cycle starts anew.
To be fair, the guy did actually self checkin to a mental facility this summer for two weeks and was released. Additionally, Maine is a yellow flag state where firearms can be taken away via a mental health review.
When I searched to see if Maine had red flag laws, all the top results were people opposed to them.
There’s a good chance the shooter was one of them, since it looks like he is a “responsible gun owner” that’s even more “responsible” than most.
Of course, the pro-gun crowd will seethe if you call him that, but the reality is that he had their full support when he bought a semi-automatic weapon. He still had it when he started hearing voices. He still had it when he started prowling the streets in open carry. Fuck, they probably would have given him the benefit of the doubt when he raised it to fire on an innocent person, as long as he was staunch Republican.
But the moment he pulled the trigger, it becomes “Oh that guy? Yeah he was never one of us. Doesn’t count”.
Then they’ll claim its a mental health problem because he had mental health issues and the gun he used to maximise the number of people he killed and wounded had nothing to do with it.
Then they’ll insist that they’ll totally entertain the idea of gun control after a mental healthcare system is built that can cure every single man, woman and child in America of serious mental health problems, even the ones that don’t want care, so completely they can be trusted with guns for the rest of their lives because they’ll never falter and also fuck you we’re not paying for it.
Tell me again how gun control laws would have stopped this?
How about I detail all the ways he could have gotten a gun under your laws that you enable that are in effect right now?
He bought the guns before he had mental health issues and red flag laws weren’t used because police are far-right and pro-gun and put cultish, bullshit ideology before people’s lives.
He just lied or had someone else lie and the gun laws you’re rushing to the defense of completely failed to catch it because they’re hopelessly inadequate and designed to put lobby profits before people’s lives.
At this point, we’ve covered 80% of mass shooters so we’re looking good statistically.
He took the legally purchased, poorly secured firearm of a “responsible gun owner” of a family member or friend because the pro-gun community staunchly insists that the “responsible” part of “responsible gun owner” is 100% optional and punishable only by the tutting of strangers on the internet.
Now we’ve covered over 90% of mass shooters, but most of these ones are children.
He bought the gun in a private sale that didn’t require a background check because for some surreal reason, the pro-gun crowd is completely okay with that and fights the closing of the loophole.
He bought a previously legally purchased, poorly secured, promptly stolen gun from a stranger, because illegal firearms don’t grow on trees, they’re endlessly (and profitably!) by millions of people like yourself.
Which covers 99% of mass shooters. Of course deep down, you already knew all of that didn’t you?
You’re just not allowed to admit it out loud, because the moment you admit that in fact yes, gun control could have stopped many of these clearly telegraphed attacks, you’d have to also admit that you pushed for the laws that killed those people.
So how about instead of me explaining “how gun control laws would have stopped this” over and over again, you go fuck yourself?
You’ve overthrown zero tyrants. You’ve done nothing to lower the crime rate. You’ve let “suicide with dad’s protect-my-family gun” become the number one cause of death for teenagers. You’ve insisted for 25 years that you have the answers and you’ve failed every single time.
Lol so no you don’t have any ideas on how more gun control would have stopped this…also hilarious that you bring up the police being far right…all the while wanting to disarm people lol yes please tell me how giving far right racist bullies Monopoly on force is a good thing.
A pretty simple how for that case would be to have a protected database where mental health professionals and institutions would report individuals with issues deemed worryng enough to bar from purchasing a gun. Then during the background check they would reference that db. If the person being checked is verified to be in that db fail the check. Maybe have some revaluation options or whatever but it’s not hard to imagine how reasonable laws that are actually enforced could actually help. The half baked laws that are half assed enforced and then held up as an example of any laws at all being fundamentally impossible just isn’t convincing.
Yeah that’s an issue that I would anticipate as well but at least now we are exploring options and identifying what may or may not work and what the trade offs are rather than pretending that it’s an impossibility like Mario was doing.
If they wanted that, they’d do things like oppose red flag laws, insist background checks remained functionally optional, oppose effective waiting periods and oppose mandatory safe storage laws.
People with mental health issues wouldn’t ever seek care if owning a firearm was linked to healthcare.
Is “some people care more about their guns than the safety and mental health of themselves and their family” supposed to be an argument for the existing gun laws?
Now we’re stigmatizing mental health treatment.
Who exactly is “we” here?
The pro-gun community rushes to blame anyone but themselves, all the while seething with indignation that they get lumped in with people who murder their partners or kill as many children as they can, just because they bought the same guns, from the same stores, under the same systems, with the same requirements as the murderer.
But boy they’re not shy doing unto others.
Half the world population will experience mental health problems in their lifetime. If the 80% of mass murderers using legally purchased guns is a low enough figure to sweep under the rug, the fraction of a fraction of mentally ill people carrying out mass murders isn’t even a speck of dust.
This man received urgent mental healthcare, to the standard that modern healthcare can provide anywhere in the world. Then he killed 20 people and injured over a dozen more with his legal firearm.
If you’re so certain that mental healthcare is the answer, you can give up your guns until you finish building your perfect healthcare utopia. Maybe you could start with the military, since apparently you have to be mentally ill to kill someone with a gun.
Until then, the current gun laws are horrifically and demonstrably inadequate at keeping guns out of the hands of violent people, despite 25 years of pro-gun cultists insisting that they and they alone have the solutions.
Do we know if he bought the gun before or after the mental health problems were diagnosed?
We don’t have many laws that will take the guns away after diagnosis, and worse, we seem to have a police force that’s not willing to enforce those laws when they do exist.
Even if he bought them before, involuntary commitment means Leos should be taking them…but as you just stated most LEOs don’t talk to each other or do what they need to be doing.
How does everyone forget to use the “people will just do it anyway” argument for every other law. When do we legalize all drugs because people just do them anyway
No they didn’t, because they weren’t really a thing at the time…also columbine and VT happened with handguns during the AWB…it was sunset because it didn’t do anything.
Are you refuting these stats and do you want to provide a source for that?
Also, saying that some gun violence happened so that means gun control doesn’t work is nonsense. It’s like “well some died in a car crash so seat belts and airbags don’t work.”
The facts on this one just aren’t on your side. Looking at this either way - the US is a third world country when it comes to gun violence, and secondarily, countries with relatively little to no gun control have extreme rates of gun violence.
Just as important, cracking down on capitalists. Recovering the wealth they’ve stolen, and using it to help provide not just for health care. But housing and food security. So people don’t have to live under the dread and constant stress to their mental state. That capitalists have engineered to facilitate their theft.
Do we really need to change our laws because some lone wolf who clearly had no political positions at all totally did not get weaponized by the media and churned through a system that literally hands guns to the mentally ill?
The guy is white. When do we start hearing something about “mental health care” that nobody will do anything about?
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Well, at least the two of us aren’t okay with this. I’m not desensitized to it. And I never will be. I don’t accept this as “just the way it is now”.
Sure they will. The millions of children who went to school each day knowing they were the target of domestic terrorists and were not just sold out by Republicans and the gun lobby but spat on by the pro-gun crowd.
They’ll abolish the second amendment, condemning it to the history books with all the other shitty things America did like the genocide of the native population and the enslavement of black people.
Whoa whoa whoa. We haven’t even gotten to thoughts and prayers. Then comes mental health. Last is the “it’s too soon to talk about this”. Then the cycle starts anew.
yes please send me some of those please
To be fair, the guy did actually self checkin to a mental facility this summer for two weeks and was released. Additionally, Maine is a yellow flag state where firearms can be taken away via a mental health review.
One of many sources https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/northeast/ap-police-say-theres-an-active-shooter-in-lewiston-maine-and-they-are-investigating-multiple-scenes/
When I searched to see if Maine had red flag laws, all the top results were people opposed to them.
There’s a good chance the shooter was one of them, since it looks like he is a “responsible gun owner” that’s even more “responsible” than most.
Of course, the pro-gun crowd will seethe if you call him that, but the reality is that he had their full support when he bought a semi-automatic weapon. He still had it when he started hearing voices. He still had it when he started prowling the streets in open carry. Fuck, they probably would have given him the benefit of the doubt when he raised it to fire on an innocent person, as long as he was staunch Republican.
But the moment he pulled the trigger, it becomes “Oh that guy? Yeah he was never one of us. Doesn’t count”.
Then they’ll claim its a mental health problem because he had mental health issues and the gun he used to maximise the number of people he killed and wounded had nothing to do with it.
Then they’ll insist that they’ll totally entertain the idea of gun control after a mental healthcare system is built that can cure every single man, woman and child in America of serious mental health problems, even the ones that don’t want care, so completely they can be trusted with guns for the rest of their lives because they’ll never falter and also fuck you we’re not paying for it.
He had mental healthcare.
He also had a legally purchased AR-15.
He legally did not. They ask you on the BG check if you have any mental health issues.
Tell me again how gun control laws would have stopped this?
How about I detail all the ways he could have gotten a gun under your laws that you enable that are in effect right now?
He bought the guns before he had mental health issues and red flag laws weren’t used because police are far-right and pro-gun and put cultish, bullshit ideology before people’s lives.
He just lied or had someone else lie and the gun laws you’re rushing to the defense of completely failed to catch it because they’re hopelessly inadequate and designed to put lobby profits before people’s lives.
At this point, we’ve covered 80% of mass shooters so we’re looking good statistically.
Now we’ve covered over 90% of mass shooters, but most of these ones are children.
He bought the gun in a private sale that didn’t require a background check because for some surreal reason, the pro-gun crowd is completely okay with that and fights the closing of the loophole.
He bought a previously legally purchased, poorly secured, promptly stolen gun from a stranger, because illegal firearms don’t grow on trees, they’re endlessly (and profitably!) by millions of people like yourself.
Which covers 99% of mass shooters. Of course deep down, you already knew all of that didn’t you?
You’re just not allowed to admit it out loud, because the moment you admit that in fact yes, gun control could have stopped many of these clearly telegraphed attacks, you’d have to also admit that you pushed for the laws that killed those people.
So how about instead of me explaining “how gun control laws would have stopped this” over and over again, you go fuck yourself?
You’ve overthrown zero tyrants. You’ve done nothing to lower the crime rate. You’ve let “suicide with dad’s protect-my-family gun” become the number one cause of death for teenagers. You’ve insisted for 25 years that you have the answers and you’ve failed every single time.
Lol so no you don’t have any ideas on how more gun control would have stopped this…also hilarious that you bring up the police being far right…all the while wanting to disarm people lol yes please tell me how giving far right racist bullies Monopoly on force is a good thing.
Oh did you solve racism with your cool guns? Did yoi stop state violence?
Nope, of course you didn’t. You’re full of shit like always and minorities are safer in countries with gun control.
Just another day of the pro-gun crowd delivering on zero of their promises.
A pretty simple how for that case would be to have a protected database where mental health professionals and institutions would report individuals with issues deemed worryng enough to bar from purchasing a gun. Then during the background check they would reference that db. If the person being checked is verified to be in that db fail the check. Maybe have some revaluation options or whatever but it’s not hard to imagine how reasonable laws that are actually enforced could actually help. The half baked laws that are half assed enforced and then held up as an example of any laws at all being fundamentally impossible just isn’t convincing.
This won’t work. Do you want more unmedicated people with guns?
People with mental health issues wouldn’t ever seek care if owning a firearm was linked to healthcare. Now we’re stigmatizing mental health treatment.
We want people to get care and be managed so they can live a normal life.
Yeah that’s an issue that I would anticipate as well but at least now we are exploring options and identifying what may or may not work and what the trade offs are rather than pretending that it’s an impossibility like Mario was doing.
If they wanted that, they’d do things like oppose red flag laws, insist background checks remained functionally optional, oppose effective waiting periods and oppose mandatory safe storage laws.
Is “some people care more about their guns than the safety and mental health of themselves and their family” supposed to be an argument for the existing gun laws?
Who exactly is “we” here?
The pro-gun community rushes to blame anyone but themselves, all the while seething with indignation that they get lumped in with people who murder their partners or kill as many children as they can, just because they bought the same guns, from the same stores, under the same systems, with the same requirements as the murderer.
But boy they’re not shy doing unto others.
Half the world population will experience mental health problems in their lifetime. If the 80% of mass murderers using legally purchased guns is a low enough figure to sweep under the rug, the fraction of a fraction of mentally ill people carrying out mass murders isn’t even a speck of dust.
This man received urgent mental healthcare, to the standard that modern healthcare can provide anywhere in the world. Then he killed 20 people and injured over a dozen more with his legal firearm.
If you’re so certain that mental healthcare is the answer, you can give up your guns until you finish building your perfect healthcare utopia. Maybe you could start with the military, since apparently you have to be mentally ill to kill someone with a gun.
Until then, the current gun laws are horrifically and demonstrably inadequate at keeping guns out of the hands of violent people, despite 25 years of pro-gun cultists insisting that they and they alone have the solutions.
This guy was barred from having a firearm already.
" ‘No way to prevent this’ , says the only developed country where mass shootings happen regularly."
Do we know if he bought the gun before or after the mental health problems were diagnosed?
We don’t have many laws that will take the guns away after diagnosis, and worse, we seem to have a police force that’s not willing to enforce those laws when they do exist.
Even if he bought them before, involuntary commitment means Leos should be taking them…but as you just stated most LEOs don’t talk to each other or do what they need to be doing.
It’s almost like those programs don’t work, and we just need a total prohibition on guns 🤷
Clearly the best course is something that failed before and only keeps the criminals armed. Brilliant
How does everyone forget to use the “people will just do it anyway” argument for every other law. When do we legalize all drugs because people just do them anyway
https://elk.zone/mstdn.social/@Strandjunker/111301755969285547
edit:
more simply: https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527
No they didn’t, because they weren’t really a thing at the time…also columbine and VT happened with handguns during the AWB…it was sunset because it didn’t do anything.
Are you refuting these stats and do you want to provide a source for that?
Also, saying that some gun violence happened so that means gun control doesn’t work is nonsense. It’s like “well some died in a car crash so seat belts and airbags don’t work.”
The facts on this one just aren’t on your side. Looking at this either way - the US is a third world country when it comes to gun violence, and secondarily, countries with relatively little to no gun control have extreme rates of gun violence.
I dunno. Seems like most developed nations have figured it out. What’s so special about the US?
Just as important, cracking down on capitalists. Recovering the wealth they’ve stolen, and using it to help provide not just for health care. But housing and food security. So people don’t have to live under the dread and constant stress to their mental state. That capitalists have engineered to facilitate their theft.
Do we really need to change our laws because some lone wolf who clearly had no political positions at all totally did not get weaponized by the media and churned through a system that literally hands guns to the mentally ill?