The guy is white. When do we start hearing something about “mental health care” that nobody will do anything about?
deleted by creator
Well, at least the two of us aren’t okay with this. I’m not desensitized to it. And I never will be. I don’t accept this as “just the way it is now”.
Sure they will. The millions of children who went to school each day knowing they were the target of domestic terrorists and were not just sold out by Republicans and the gun lobby but spat on by the pro-gun crowd.
They’ll abolish the second amendment, condemning it to the history books with all the other shitty things America did like the genocide of the native population and the enslavement of black people.
Whoa whoa whoa. We haven’t even gotten to thoughts and prayers. Then comes mental health. Last is the “it’s too soon to talk about this”. Then the cycle starts anew.
yes please send me some of those please
To be fair, the guy did actually self checkin to a mental facility this summer for two weeks and was released. Additionally, Maine is a yellow flag state where firearms can be taken away via a mental health review.
One of many sources https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/northeast/ap-police-say-theres-an-active-shooter-in-lewiston-maine-and-they-are-investigating-multiple-scenes/
When I searched to see if Maine had red flag laws, all the top results were people opposed to them.
There’s a good chance the shooter was one of them, since it looks like he is a “responsible gun owner” that’s even more “responsible” than most.
Of course, the pro-gun crowd will seethe if you call him that, but the reality is that he had their full support when he bought a semi-automatic weapon. He still had it when he started hearing voices. He still had it when he started prowling the streets in open carry. Fuck, they probably would have given him the benefit of the doubt when he raised it to fire on an innocent person, as long as he was staunch Republican.
But the moment he pulled the trigger, it becomes “Oh that guy? Yeah he was never one of us. Doesn’t count”.
Then they’ll claim its a mental health problem because he had mental health issues and the gun he used to maximise the number of people he killed and wounded had nothing to do with it.
Then they’ll insist that they’ll totally entertain the idea of gun control after a mental healthcare system is built that can cure every single man, woman and child in America of serious mental health problems, even the ones that don’t want care, so completely they can be trusted with guns for the rest of their lives because they’ll never falter and also fuck you we’re not paying for it.
He had mental healthcare.
He also had a legally purchased AR-15.
He legally did not. They ask you on the BG check if you have any mental health issues.
Tell me again how gun control laws would have stopped this?
Tell me again how gun control laws would have stopped this?
How about I detail all the ways he could have gotten a gun under your laws that you enable that are in effect right now?
-
He bought the guns before he had mental health issues and red flag laws weren’t used because police are far-right and pro-gun and put cultish, bullshit ideology before people’s lives.
-
He just lied or had someone else lie and the gun laws you’re rushing to the defense of completely failed to catch it because they’re hopelessly inadequate and designed to put lobby profits before people’s lives.
At this point, we’ve covered 80% of mass shooters so we’re looking good statistically.
- He took the legally purchased, poorly secured firearm of a “responsible gun owner” of a family member or friend because the pro-gun community staunchly insists that the “responsible” part of “responsible gun owner” is 100% optional and punishable only by the tutting of strangers on the internet.
Now we’ve covered over 90% of mass shooters, but most of these ones are children.
-
He bought the gun in a private sale that didn’t require a background check because for some surreal reason, the pro-gun crowd is completely okay with that and fights the closing of the loophole.
-
He bought a previously legally purchased, poorly secured, promptly stolen gun from a stranger, because illegal firearms don’t grow on trees, they’re endlessly (and profitably!) by millions of people like yourself.
Which covers 99% of mass shooters. Of course deep down, you already knew all of that didn’t you?
You’re just not allowed to admit it out loud, because the moment you admit that in fact yes, gun control could have stopped many of these clearly telegraphed attacks, you’d have to also admit that you pushed for the laws that killed those people.
So how about instead of me explaining “how gun control laws would have stopped this” over and over again, you go fuck yourself?
You’ve overthrown zero tyrants. You’ve done nothing to lower the crime rate. You’ve let “suicide with dad’s protect-my-family gun” become the number one cause of death for teenagers. You’ve insisted for 25 years that you have the answers and you’ve failed every single time.
Lol so no you don’t have any ideas on how more gun control would have stopped this…also hilarious that you bring up the police being far right…all the while wanting to disarm people lol yes please tell me how giving far right racist bullies Monopoly on force is a good thing.
Oh did you solve racism with your cool guns? Did yoi stop state violence?
Nope, of course you didn’t. You’re full of shit like always and minorities are safer in countries with gun control.
Just another day of the pro-gun crowd delivering on zero of their promises.
-
A pretty simple how for that case would be to have a protected database where mental health professionals and institutions would report individuals with issues deemed worryng enough to bar from purchasing a gun. Then during the background check they would reference that db. If the person being checked is verified to be in that db fail the check. Maybe have some revaluation options or whatever but it’s not hard to imagine how reasonable laws that are actually enforced could actually help. The half baked laws that are half assed enforced and then held up as an example of any laws at all being fundamentally impossible just isn’t convincing.
This won’t work. Do you want more unmedicated people with guns?
People with mental health issues wouldn’t ever seek care if owning a firearm was linked to healthcare. Now we’re stigmatizing mental health treatment.
We want people to get care and be managed so they can live a normal life.
Yeah that’s an issue that I would anticipate as well but at least now we are exploring options and identifying what may or may not work and what the trade offs are rather than pretending that it’s an impossibility like Mario was doing.
Do you want more unmedicated people with guns?
If they wanted that, they’d do things like oppose red flag laws, insist background checks remained functionally optional, oppose effective waiting periods and oppose mandatory safe storage laws.
People with mental health issues wouldn’t ever seek care if owning a firearm was linked to healthcare.
Is “some people care more about their guns than the safety and mental health of themselves and their family” supposed to be an argument for the existing gun laws?
Now we’re stigmatizing mental health treatment.
Who exactly is “we” here?
The pro-gun community rushes to blame anyone but themselves, all the while seething with indignation that they get lumped in with people who murder their partners or kill as many children as they can, just because they bought the same guns, from the same stores, under the same systems, with the same requirements as the murderer.
But boy they’re not shy doing unto others.
Half the world population will experience mental health problems in their lifetime. If the 80% of mass murderers using legally purchased guns is a low enough figure to sweep under the rug, the fraction of a fraction of mentally ill people carrying out mass murders isn’t even a speck of dust.
This man received urgent mental healthcare, to the standard that modern healthcare can provide anywhere in the world. Then he killed 20 people and injured over a dozen more with his legal firearm.
If you’re so certain that mental healthcare is the answer, you can give up your guns until you finish building your perfect healthcare utopia. Maybe you could start with the military, since apparently you have to be mentally ill to kill someone with a gun.
Until then, the current gun laws are horrifically and demonstrably inadequate at keeping guns out of the hands of violent people, despite 25 years of pro-gun cultists insisting that they and they alone have the solutions.
This guy was barred from having a firearm already.
" ‘No way to prevent this’ , says the only developed country where mass shootings happen regularly."
Do we know if he bought the gun before or after the mental health problems were diagnosed?
We don’t have many laws that will take the guns away after diagnosis, and worse, we seem to have a police force that’s not willing to enforce those laws when they do exist.
Even if he bought them before, involuntary commitment means Leos should be taking them…but as you just stated most LEOs don’t talk to each other or do what they need to be doing.
It’s almost like those programs don’t work, and we just need a total prohibition on guns 🤷
Clearly the best course is something that failed before and only keeps the criminals armed. Brilliant
How does everyone forget to use the “people will just do it anyway” argument for every other law. When do we legalize all drugs because people just do them anyway
Bill Clinton banned assault weapons in 1994; mass shootings dropped by 43%.
George W. Bush and the GOP let the assault weapons ban expire in 2004; mass shootings increased by 245%.
These numbers tell the whole story.
https://elk.zone/mstdn.social/@Strandjunker/111301755969285547
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527
edit:
more simply: https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527
No they didn’t, because they weren’t really a thing at the time…also columbine and VT happened with handguns during the AWB…it was sunset because it didn’t do anything.
Are you refuting these stats and do you want to provide a source for that?
Also, saying that some gun violence happened so that means gun control doesn’t work is nonsense. It’s like “well some died in a car crash so seat belts and airbags don’t work.”
The facts on this one just aren’t on your side. Looking at this either way - the US is a third world country when it comes to gun violence, and secondarily, countries with relatively little to no gun control have extreme rates of gun violence.
I dunno. Seems like most developed nations have figured it out. What’s so special about the US?
Just as important, cracking down on capitalists. Recovering the wealth they’ve stolen, and using it to help provide not just for health care. But housing and food security. So people don’t have to live under the dread and constant stress to their mental state. That capitalists have engineered to facilitate their theft.
Do we really need to change our laws because some lone wolf who clearly had no political positions at all totally did not get weaponized by the media and churned through a system that literally hands guns to the mentally ill?
Fuck me man. 22 dead now.
Where are all those good guys with guns!
Dead, because they’re a priority target.
Open carry is for inch-dick assholes.
This dude is straight up rolling in blasting from the photos I’ve seen. Even if you had a gun on you, you wouldn’t have the time to aim before he’s mowing you down.
yes, that’s the point
But “aR StYle wEapONs doN’t MAke A diFfeRenCe”
They really don’t…95% of all gun homicide are done with handguns. No one bats an eye at those because 85% of them are done in drug or gang violence…only time anyone starts talking gun control is when something like this happens.
If an AR style didn’t provide an advantage then the military wouldn’t select designs like it.
Militaries need to consider more than combat effectiveness for servive weapons: namely low cost and availability, which AR patterns have in spades.
What percentage of mass casualty incidents are carried out with a handgun?
The majority of them. As the majority that are classified as mass casualties are from gang and drug violence
They really don’t…95% of all gun homicide are done with handguns.
Good suggestion! We should ban all semi-automatic guns, long and short.
No one bats an eye at those because 85% of them are done in drug or gang violence
You forgot “domestic abuse”, but I guess that was a bit too white sounding for your list.
Also, you’re going to link us to the source of these figures right?
only time anyone starts talking gun control is when something like this happens.
So every couple of months then. What an odd coincidence that it lines up with the pro-guns concern about mental healthcare?
You can google it, you know. source 1
Let’s see…in 2021, depending on who you ask, between 103 people (FBI) and 700 people (Gun Violence Archive) died in mass shootings. This is as compared to 48,830 deaths from firearms total. So ~1.5%.
As for handguns: “In 2020, the most recent year for which the FBI has published data, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%.”
So above poster was a bit low for purely murders. However, mix in the fact that about 54% of gun deaths are suicides (overwhelming handguns), and the total percentage of gun deaths attributable to handguns is about 80%.
I’ve already agreed to ban handguns too so don’t feel obligated to post statistics that were next to the statistics I actually challenged.
You plan on taking them? Tell me exactly what makes you think those who have them illegally will turn them in and what makes you think LEOs will be willing to go door to door taking guns?
Domestic abuse is also in that list but it’s not as high as gang and drug violence…also go fuck yourself you race baiting shit. Armed minorities are harder to oppress and I’m not the white picket fence urbanized white kid who wants to disarm minorities.
Yes it would be good to get single payer healthcare and it would be good to rebuild our mental healthcare in the USA. It would be good to end the drug war, and end for profit prisons. It would be good to pay teachers more and to focus more money on our inner city schools instead of white suburban schools.
Got any other silly comments?
PS, you’re not arguing with a white christian republican…
You plan on taking them? Tell me exactly what makes you think those who have them illegally will turn them in and what makes you think LEOs will be willing to go door to door taking guns?
I’m fine with “responsible gun owners” becoming “illegal gun owners”. If they’re caught with illegal firearms, they get charged with possession just like anybody else.
They will have had their chance to comply with democratically decided gun laws and if they can’t prove they are able to securely store and responsibly handle, fuck em.
I’m also fine with firing police who selectively uphold the law based on their own shitty personal views, just as I’m fine with taking away the excuses they use to execute people on the spot.
Domestic abuse is also in that list but it’s not as high as gang and drug violence…also go fuck yourself you race baiting shit.
In 2007, 14% of homicides were domestic violence related.
In 2020, 9.7% of homicides were gang related.
So what a surprise, you’re just pushing right-wing “it’s those urban kids and their gangs” pro-gun talking points for Fox News hairpieces.
Armed minorities are harder to oppress and I’m not the white picket fence urbanized white kid who wants to disarm minorities.
Are they? Because they’re looking pretty fucking oppressed to me.
Police in America routinely execute black people on the street and in their homes. If those victims were in 50ft of a gun, they don’t do even a token investigation.
Black men are incarcerated at a much higher rate and in a country where incarceration is already far beyond countries of comparable wealth.
And of course, every few months a far-right extremist takes their legal gun and goes hunting minorities, targeting places like majority black churches or gay clubs, killing as many of them as they possibly can before the police arrive with their hamburger.
By all means, share with us exactly when we’re supposed to start firing on police and how you expect that to lead to systemic reform and not just minorities being killed with a renewed vigor.
You can’t though can you? Because “armed minorities are harder to oppress” isn’t actually wisdom. It’s not based on anything at all.
It’s a marketing slogan invented by the gun lobby and taught to suckers with no purpose other than increasing gun sales beyond the usual “middle aged white conservative” demographic, in order to funnel more blood money into their offshore accounts.
Yes it would be good to get single payer healthcare and it would be good to rebuild our mental healthcare in the USA. It would be good to end the drug war, and end for profit prisons. It would be good to pay teachers more and to focus more money on our inner city schools instead of white suburban schools.
Is this actually related to anything in this conversation or are you just trying reassure everybody you’re definitely a progressive because leftists like cool guns too, get your cool gun now, AR-15s on sale now just $499, armed minorities are harder to oppress, better to have one and not need it, better still to have two or three and not need them, save $200 when you purchase two or more guns.
Got any other silly comments?
Got any more marketing slogans you want to get off your chest? Maybe you could lie about some more statistics?
PS, you’re not arguing with a white christian republican…
Sure I am. Whatever color your skin may be, inside that skull are the exact thoughts of a white christian republican – and that’s not something you can lie about.
Where are you seeing these photos?
I guess this wasn’t one of the 3% of shootings they intervene in, just another of the 99% they enthusiastically enable.
They’re saying three locations so far, but I’m only seeing details for two: Schemengees Bar and Grille (restaurant) and Sparetime Recreation (bowling alley).
Scrolling through different news channels, the only update I’ve heard in the last 45 minutes is the count update from 16 to 22.
They’ve released an images of the shooter and of his vehicle, a Subaru Outback (kinda silver/white).
https://www.sunjournal.com/2023/10/25/multiple-victims-reported-following-shootings-in-lewiston/
Lewiston public information officer Derrick St. Laurent told the Sun Journal at about 8:15 p.m. that another shooting had been reported at the Walmart Distribution Center on Alfred A Plourde Parkway.
I work in a 911 dispatch center, we had a shooting at a bowling alley a few years ago, it was probably one of the craziest, most stressful incidents we’ve had since I’ve been working there. So that hits a little close to home for me.
The incident we had wasn’t a mass shooting, just some assholes who shouldn’t have had guns got into a fight and started blasting.
It was right after shift change, we had pretty much all just sat down and logged in, usually at that time of day there’s not too much really going on, and then suddenly everyone in the room’s phone went off at once and everything became chaos for the next hour or so.
The shooting was over by the time we got the first call, the shooter was probably even long-gone, out the door in a car speeding away.
My first caller was just hysterically screaming, I couldn’t really get any useful information from them, but from what I could hear in the background it sounded like they were close to the victims, maybe even had been part of their group.
We had about 3 or 4 wildly different descriptions of the suspect. Was it one person or was it three? We’re they old or young? Black or white? We’re they wearing trench coats, hoodies, military style jackets?
We had a caller who had grabbed some kids and pulled them into a utility closet to hide.
We had calls coming in for the rest of the night and even the next day from people who were there and fled as soon as it started.
Just absolute chaos.
Third location is allegedly a Walmart distribution center
There’s always confusion with these things. Where? How many shooters? How many dead? It’ll take a while for completely accurate info to come out. There will be a news conference tomorrow, I’m sure.
There’s always confusion with these things. Where? How many shooters? How many dead? It’ll take a while for completely accurate info to come out
And that’s one of my biggest frustrations with the people who immediately demand full information, and insist there must be some conspiracy going on when they don’t get it, or when there complete information eventually comes out that isn’t an exact match for the initial reports.
People need to chill the fuck out when these things are still developing.
Photo I saw was from the bowling alley. Jesus
Dude looks like Jake Gyllenhall, or is it just me?
They just confirmed 18 during the live conference
Should have linked this instead:
[theonion.com/search?q=“No Way To Prevent This”](https://www.theonion.com/search?q=“No\ Way\ To\ Prevent\ This”)
Edit: Effin hell, Liftoff or Lemmy keeps butchering the URL
Edit 2: Had to escape each space in the URL to make it work
Edit 3: Jerboa users try this link instead:
https://www.theonion.com/search?q=No+Way+To+Prevent+This
(Loses the quotes enforcing the word order in the search matches)
Looks like spaces are not standard per W3 schools. Either have to use pluses or %20.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1211229/in-a-url-should-spaces-be-encoded-using-20-or
The Onion search does not seem to like %20
https://www.theonion.com/search?q=No Way To Prevent This
Liftoff attempts to “correct” the URL with %20s for spaces.
Lol, no, this definitely doesn’t work
It does now, and it shows the newest article from 5 minutes ago so it seems like a win.
Doesn’t work on jerboa
The shooter is still at large.
Three locations have been attacked so far.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
A large chunk decided to pretend gun laws were never a thing.
Maybe it’s because western movies went out of style, where refusing to turn your guns over to the sheriff was the entire plot point.
Pretty much the ruling class decided they’d be richer if more people bought guns, so guess what people did?
It’s not really as complex as people make out.
The gun lobby profits from gun sales. Mass shootings increase gun sales, which in turn increase mass shootings, giving them the growth they demand.
But mass shootings also increase demand for gun control, so the gun lobby spends millions of dollars openly bribing Republicans, millions more in courts fighting progressives, and undisclosed amounts astro-turfing and seeding talking points online.
The spreadsheets say that’s the path to maximum profits, so that’s the path they take. They simply don’t care about these 22 people or the 220 before that or the 2,200 before that. It will never be their kids expensive school.
So is it not on Reddit because conservative down votes, shitty algorithm, not enough people compared to bots, or a combination of the above?
Going there for the first time since the migration, and not seeing it anywhere on the top of anything (/Maine had it but couldn’t get a sticky) while not logged in made me very satisfied I’ve made the correct decision sticking around lemmy.
They screwed with the algorithm years ago. It took about 4 hours for it to show up on /r/all via /r/Maine.
I remember when I got breaking news on reddit almost immediately. 4 hours? What a joke.
It’s been front page of reddit for many hours now https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/17gjs8e/suspect_at_large_after_2_active_shooter_incidents/
Reddit is a censorship hellhole.
There’s so much secretive bullshit going on there it isn’t worth taking seriously.
Having a public modlog is necessary to keep mods accountable.
Reddit does absolutely nothing to combat shills and vote manipulation because it all looks like ad impressions to investors.
They’re probably here already, since the buy in is so low. But realistically they’d be focused on the bigger sites for something like this.
Wait a shooting? Quick someone get the Constitution back out after we shelved it to stop women from driving on roads and other religions to exist!
It’s up to 22 dead now. Jfc.
Guns are for killing people and semi-automatic guns are for killing lots of people.
And nothing will change.
https://newrepublic.com/article/176042/ar15-gun-culture-unmade-america
The gun that unmade America was built to address a secret, long-suppressed problem: The American fighting man just wasn’t that good at fighting. And if the AR-15 is so feared these days, it’s because it’s brought that sub-competence to the civilian world, where now literally any idiot can use it to unleash mayhem and death.
Tell me you don’t know shit about guns without telling me you know shit about guns…
That is so original and funny. Have you tried reddit?
Have you tried posting the onion article that always gets posted with these threads? You’ll probably get a bunch of laughs
Yeah! I mean look at this former responsible gun owner in Maine! He has a AR-15 and is clearly very good at killing innocent people.
So they’re not just for morbidly obese middle-aged men, with neither combat training nor the discipline to undertake it, to parade around with in a poorly articulated tantrum about masks, posing at a sloppy attention for the Fox News cameras.
The only thing these damn gun-grabbers seem to know about guns is how many innocent people they kill and how seldom they deliver on their promises.
Dude was barred from owning firearms…again what law would have stopped it?
Damn video games at it again!
/s
I thought it’s all the drag queen’s fault these days?
These fuckin men dressin’ as ladies, minding their own business! Destroying this great country!
I have a teacher who’s a super trump supporter anf says shit like this unironically. One of his favorite movies is Rocky Horror Picture Show, and I think that’s just one of the funniest things.
And the ssri drugs the liberal doctors give you that turn the frogs gay.
Got damn pokey mans and tick tacks
Such sad news. I wonder what triggered/motivated him.
Fear
My buddy grew up there. Fucking sad
Stormtroopers have been dispatched and instructed to exercise extreme caution. They will engage the suspected perpetrator only if absolutely necessary. Priority is to capture and bring the suspect to trial, if possible
Make sure to get him some McDonald’s first though.
I don’t understand why this is even news over there at this point
News networks profit from covering mass shootings. Mass shooting coverage sells more guns which is profitable for the gun lobby. More guns sold means more mass shootings.
It’s the circle of “profiting off innocent peoples deaths”
