This is a massive strawman argument. No one is saying you shouldn’t have a license to view the content in order to train an AI on it. Most of the information used to train these models is publicly available and licensed for public viewing.
Just because something is available for public viewing does not mean it’s licensed for anything except personal use.
The strawman here is that since physical people benefit from personal use exceptions in the law, machine learning software should too. But why should they? Since when is a piece of software ran by a corporation equivalent to an individual person?
A tangentially related but good example of this sort of thing is BluRays and community movie nights (like setting up a projector in a park).
Most of these movie nights are de facto illegal, as even though you own the BluRay, it is not licensed for public showings, just for personal use. Obviously no one gives enough of a shit to enforce this against small groups, especially if they aren’t making money off it, but if a theater started offering showings of shit the owner just bought on BluRay or UHD disks, it wouldn’t last too long.
Similar thing here. Just because you can access the content to view it yourself doesn’t mean you have the rights to do more than that with it. As an individual, you’re likely fine to break those rules. As a giant fucking corporation, it’s time for you to pay up.
Copyright licensing allows the owner to control how a work is distributed, not how it’s consumed. “Personal use” just means that you can’t turn around and redistribute a work that you’ve obtained. Not that you’re not allowed to consume it in a corporate setting.
Copyright licensing allows the owner to control how a work is distributed, not how it’s consumed.
First of all, that’s incorrect.
Secondly, by default you have zero rights to someone else’s work. If something doesn’t explicitly grant you rights, you have none. If there’s a law or license, and if it’s applicable to you, you get exactly what’s specified in there.
The “personal use” or “fair use” exceptions in some places grant some basic rights but they are very narrow in scope and generally applicable only to individuals.
A program of machine can be a consumer of something, although if you want to be technical you could say the person using the machine is the consumer. In actual computer science we talk about programs consuming things all the time.
In actual computer science you talk about AI all the time as well but it’s not actually intelligent is it? It’s just SmarterChild 2.0 and literally has no idea what word it said just before it’s current one. Not intelligent. Words are often used inappropriately. The only thing computers can consume is data and electricity by definition, and consuming data is not the same as implementing it in a language (or visual) model that you intend to profit from. This is data theft, unless properly licensed.
How intelligent it is or isn’t is irrelevant. We talk about much dumber programs than AI as being consumers of files and data including things like compilers. Would it not be person use for you to view a picture in a photo viewer or try and edit it in GIMP?
It’s not data theft at all unless the courts and law says it is. Ranting on lemmy won’t change that fact. Theft is a construct of law.
You can add clauses against use as AI training data to your licence if you wish.
Training literally is consuming. A copyright license doesn’t get to dictate what computer programs the work is allowed to be used with. There’s a ton a entertainment mega corps that would love for that to be the case, though.
You’re saying that you’re not allowed to do a statistical analysis on a copyrighted work. It’s nonsense. It’s well-established that copyright does not prevent that kind of use.
What makes you think copyright law doesn’t apply to companies using copy written data to sell and profit off of? That is not the case. Also, you’re putting words in my mouth. Feel free to read my other replies on this thread but I don’t feel like repeating myself, but I think it’s clear I’m not saying computers aren’t allowed to process data that’s absurd.
Properly following licensing, right?
No, see, because it’s “learning like a human”, and everybody knows that you’re allowed to bypass any licensing for learning. /s
But seriously I don’t know how they make the jump to these conclusions either.
This is a massive strawman argument. No one is saying you shouldn’t have a license to view the content in order to train an AI on it. Most of the information used to train these models is publicly available and licensed for public viewing.
Just because something is available for public viewing does not mean it’s licensed for anything except personal use.
The strawman here is that since physical people benefit from personal use exceptions in the law, machine learning software should too. But why should they? Since when is a piece of software ran by a corporation equivalent to an individual person?
A tangentially related but good example of this sort of thing is BluRays and community movie nights (like setting up a projector in a park).
Most of these movie nights are de facto illegal, as even though you own the BluRay, it is not licensed for public showings, just for personal use. Obviously no one gives enough of a shit to enforce this against small groups, especially if they aren’t making money off it, but if a theater started offering showings of shit the owner just bought on BluRay or UHD disks, it wouldn’t last too long.
Similar thing here. Just because you can access the content to view it yourself doesn’t mean you have the rights to do more than that with it. As an individual, you’re likely fine to break those rules. As a giant fucking corporation, it’s time for you to pay up.
Copyright licensing allows the owner to control how a work is distributed, not how it’s consumed. “Personal use” just means that you can’t turn around and redistribute a work that you’ve obtained. Not that you’re not allowed to consume it in a corporate setting.
First of all, that’s incorrect.
Secondly, by default you have zero rights to someone else’s work. If something doesn’t explicitly grant you rights, you have none. If there’s a law or license, and if it’s applicable to you, you get exactly what’s specified in there.
The “personal use” or “fair use” exceptions in some places grant some basic rights but they are very narrow in scope and generally applicable only to individuals.
Consuming is not the same thing as training. A machine is not a consumer, it is a tool.
A program of machine can be a consumer of something, although if you want to be technical you could say the person using the machine is the consumer. In actual computer science we talk about programs consuming things all the time.
In actual computer science you talk about AI all the time as well but it’s not actually intelligent is it? It’s just SmarterChild 2.0 and literally has no idea what word it said just before it’s current one. Not intelligent. Words are often used inappropriately. The only thing computers can consume is data and electricity by definition, and consuming data is not the same as implementing it in a language (or visual) model that you intend to profit from. This is data theft, unless properly licensed.
Also the way you imply children can’t be intelligent is disgusting.
How intelligent it is or isn’t is irrelevant. We talk about much dumber programs than AI as being consumers of files and data including things like compilers. Would it not be person use for you to view a picture in a photo viewer or try and edit it in GIMP?
It’s not data theft at all unless the courts and law says it is. Ranting on lemmy won’t change that fact. Theft is a construct of law.
You can add clauses against use as AI training data to your licence if you wish.
Training literally is consuming. A copyright license doesn’t get to dictate what computer programs the work is allowed to be used with. There’s a ton a entertainment mega corps that would love for that to be the case, though.
You’re saying that you’re not allowed to do a statistical analysis on a copyrighted work. It’s nonsense. It’s well-established that copyright does not prevent that kind of use.
What makes you think copyright law doesn’t apply to companies using copy written data to sell and profit off of? That is not the case. Also, you’re putting words in my mouth. Feel free to read my other replies on this thread but I don’t feel like repeating myself, but I think it’s clear I’m not saying computers aren’t allowed to process data that’s absurd.
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