Fuck all imperialist and hierarchical power structures. Fuck colonialism and fuck the police. Fuck fascists and the libs that enable them.
Xi Jinping is a fascist, and I don’t think it was liberals that enabled him
Xi’s also an imperialist and implemented a hierarchical government. Nothing I said was paradoxical. Fuck 'em all.
What liberals enabled Xi??
Did I say that all authoritarians are enabled by liberals? What agenda are you trying to push by misconstruing my words? Like seriously what point are you trying to reach here?
fuck fascists and the liberals who enable them.
I think it was this part where you link fascists to liberal enablers.
Hear fuckin hear!
‘The Libs,’ LOL!!!
From a anon American, it’s hilarious seeing the hick come out. ‘the Libs hur durrr.’
Hahaha that shits always funny
You’re replying to a leftist, not a conservative “hick.”
Here here
How many billionaires before a country is a liberal shit-hole?
600?
675?
imperialism is the subjugation of one country for the benefit of the first. DPRK is not imperialist (how could it be under UN sanctions), PRC is not imperialist, USSR was not imperialist.
Communists critically support the DPRK, the USSR, and the PCR, progressive liberals uncritically support Obama, Biden, conservative liberals uncritically support Trump, Bush, etc
read lenin.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?
It won’t do!
It won’t do!
You must investigate!
You must not talk nonsense!
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_11.htm
The instance you use is named after an Ikea plush. I will not debate you.
The South China Sea, Poland and most of eastern Europe would like a word…
Edit: Oh, and Tibet, Taiwan, etc…
Look dude I’ve worked with many MLs and MLMs. I’ve read some of both Lenin and Mao’s works. I think the recent rhetoric of calling communists fascist is wholely harmful to the left and I don’t participate in it. I never called the DPRK imperialist for obvious reasons. I didn’t even call the PRC imperialist because I do recognize that western media is not a reliable source on the matter. I recognize my own ignorance in these matters and don’t take part in uncritically decrying post-revolution communist states.
We disagree on the way a just society should be structured, or the methods of achieving that end. I consider authoritarianism and unjust hierarchies as a problem of both capitalism and state communism, but as long as my viewpoints can be heard and addressed, I personally don’t have issue with MLs and MLMs. The atrocities of capitalism far outweigh the failures of established communist states.
Communism is neither left nor right. It is just a construct of governance. While it was originally promoted by leftists, it can be either left or right. Some communists are conservative and/or fascist (ex. China).
Communism is neither left nor right.
The Left/Right divide is about property. Should it be collectivized, or individually owned and traded, ie Socialism vs Capitalism. Communism, therefore, must be left-wing.
It is just a construct of governance.
Yes and no. Communism is also economic in nature.
While it was originally promoted by leftists, it can be either left or right.
You cannot have Right-Wing Communists.
Some communists are conservative and/or fascist (ex. China).
The PRC is socially conservative, yes. Economically, it is Socialist, though certainly not yet Lower-Stage Communist. This does not make China “fascist” or right-wing. It is a socially reactionary, economicaly progressive state.
I think you proved their point. Also, your ad hominem attack (or ad urbem attack) could be construed as transphobic.
‘The instance you use is named after an Ikea plush. I will not debate you.’
This JK Rowling?
USSR was not imperialist.
Countries like Estonia might disagree with you there, buddy.
And by “liberal” you mean anyone who dares criticise Daddy Putin and Supreme Leader Xi, amirite?
Dude my very first sentence was “Fuck all imperialist and hierarchical power structures.” How can you think that I support China or Russia?
Uh oh, you’ve activated the libs. Now they’ll make wild assumptions and other fabrications instead of actually addressing anything you’ve said.
Uh oh, you’ve activated the
libstankies. Now they’ll make wild assumptions and other fabrications instead of actually addressing anything you’ve said.FTFY, lib
You seem to be under the impression that liberals have a logically and ethically consistent belief structure.
The realization that liberals are unscratched fascists is a tough one, but you are one of the few intelligent folks able to recognize it… it’s a curse.
They clearly wrote fuck hierarchical powers. Fuck any supreme leader.
you’re such an online edgelord that you’re fighting straw men of your own creation. sign off, your family probably misses you.
Oops. Posted on tankie news again. Always forget to check.
Edit: actually, i retract that. I got mixed up with another thread.
Your use of tankie is exactly like the conservative use of woke. You’re not even close to superior to those you mock. Hopefully one day you realize that and actually apply that human brain of yours.
Just to be clear, you don’t think I should be against liberals enabling fascism? You don’t see anything wrong with the slow march to the far right that’s happening in so many parts of the world recently?
The irony of a liberal calling an anarchist authoritarian… Liberals are simps for an authoritarian economic system
I’m just really annoyed by “liberal” constantly being equated with “fascist enabler” round here. If anyone calls themselves a liberal while supporting fascists, they’re just fascists in disguise. While there are people like that, that’s not what liberalism means, in fact, it’s quite the opposite.
It’s a language issue. You’re likely from the United States, where liberal is used to suggest an adherent to classical liberalism or progressivism. Most of the rest of the English speaking world means neoliberal, as in an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and the reduction of government spending.
I’m fortunately not from the US. But you’re right. A lot of people equate liberal with neoliberal or libertarian. Which is a real bummer.
Please, enlighten me about what you think liberalism means. In my view (as an anarchist) liberalism is at best ineffective at preventing fascism from taking over. It enables colonialism and imperialism, and offers no solution to the horrors of capitalism. Liberal ideology is one of state violence and compromise with literal fascists.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various and often mutually warring views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.
- Wikipedia
focusing on voting as the only allowed political action, supporting capitalism, valuing order over justice…
Dude, liberals literally helped Hitler become Reichskanzler.
For anyone not familiar, that was in no small part thanks to Paul von Hindenburg. If only he had instead gone the way of the zeppelin named after him.
So many of them on Lemmy lol
Lemmy was originally built by and for tankies, so this is completely unsurprising. The .ml TLD on the original instance isn’t a coincidence.
Lemmygrad was literally made to be an even more mask off .ml
Weird they made a decentralized platform for one single group.
It was never closed to non-tankies, but it wasn’t very welcoming. I had an account on .ml early on and most of the time I got hammered with downvotes, despite having opinions that I’d describe as being on the left edge of liberalism.
To be clear, the left edge of liberalism is bernie sanders. Is that what youre saying?
Meh, I’d say Bernie is either a social democrat or a reformist socialist who hides his power level.
They made it for themselves but let us set up instances outside of their control due to their morals that software should be open for all. Again proving the best open source software comes from scratching a personal itch.
Of course it’s OUR SOFTWARE
(cue soviet anthem)
/s
I can see the decentralized platform as a communist parallel. I don’t, however, understand the fanaticism for the murdery shit show dictatorship that was Russia/China though.
And that’s okay. Most of them stay to their own instance and don’t come over and bother us normal people. Just ignore the crazies and move on
Communism and conservatism are not mutually exclusive. Conservative communism involves dictators and oppression. That’s how that weird nonsense happened.
It’s almost like the dishonest nature is built into their every move.
CTH has been eradicated from every platform it’s arisen on, then they built Lemmy.
These “tankies” are conservative right-wing shitbag trolls trying to convince the normal people that supporting oppression and dictators is somehow “left-wing”. Do not fall for their conservative bullshit.
Just like any other conservative, every word they utter is deception or manipulation. Tankies are conservative trolls through and through.
That’s a no true Scotsman argument.
There are plenty of actual tankies here. In fact, the Lemmy software is created by tankies and one of the larger Lemmy instances is run by them.
From what I’ve seen, there’s a big divide amongst the tankies. There are those who are basically Stalin MAGA, base their political opinions on Soviet aesthetics and don’t consider much the practical implications of their actions. Some simply lash out against mainstream liberal ideology and others are just trolls.
Ane the other camp is made of people who read a lot of communist philosophy and are absolutely convinced the only way to achieve an equal society is by forcing everyone into it. This has its own problems, but they at least have an internally coherent ideology.
That’s not to say I agree with either camp. Their ideology promotes a vanguard party which can quickly spiral into “some are more equal than others”. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that. But I do understand where the second camp is coming from. I think the path to a better world lies in trade unions and people coming together to defend common interests.
When they are actively censoring and banning people who make critical comments about the PRC, the USSR, or even present day Russia, I don’t care where they come from.
I was banned from lemmy.ml myself for saying something about the Tiananmen Square massacre.
You got banned for a month because you posted an off topic anti-China meme in the thread looking for moderators of the memes sub with the text “Why, so you can censor some more posts critical of China? The modlog of this sub is absolutely ridiculous:”
The ban expired a month ago so I guess feel free to go back.
E: after more carefully scrutinizing the images in the modlog, you posted a screenshot of people being banned or having posts removed for posting gore and debunked sinophobic stuff.
Debunked sinophobic stuff like what? In my experience, that category includes anything critical of China, including Tiananmen Square.
I think there were two links to the gore page people post and a couple of responses saying you couldn’t even talk about tiannamen square.
The first is clear what it is, I’d call the second one sinophobic because it’s patently untrue and is basically an anti-china buzzword now. Idk why mods did what they did.
Genuine question, is criticism of the Israeli government, even based on falsehoods or misunderstandings, antisemitism?
To say that reference to a historical event that the CCP doesn’t believe happened the way the west does is sinophobic is on the same level. At best you’d have people with unjustified animus towards the government of China but not its people. After all, is the claim that the people of China collectively slaughtered those student protesters demanding reasonable changes to a corrupt system or that the government did so?
Both r/conservative and lemmy.ml are equally frightened of facts.
In my own experience with actual Communists (I do live in a country which has them), they’re some of the most conservative people around.
I mean, these people are holding on really hard to political slogans which often are a century old or near it and they genuinelly an uncritically think all that stuff is Leftwing even in the face of all evidence that such forms invariably led to the creating of new Elites and to lesser or greater extent Dystopian Societies, never the promised Equalitarian Utopia.
Plenty of Lefties around who trully believe in Leftwing Principles without the insane tribalism of following the dictats of The Party.
Personally I just saw this meme as referencing such traditionalist unthinking muppets who think of themselves as Lefties all the while defending the well installed and entrenched establishment and elites of a few specific countries.
Well a lot of that can be explained by the fact that conservatives co-opted the left wing movements for communism and largely turned them into dictatorships. These governments endured several decades before collapsing, which allows newer conservatives to think of them as “the good ol days.”
It doesn’t mean they ever were communists. They just stole the name and ruined its reputation.
A simpler explanation is that the people who seek power are the worst of the bunch and they’ll say whatever it takes to get there and keep it - it’s a pretty well know thing since Ancient times that the best rulers are the ones who do NOT want to rule.
Sociopaths will just as easilly sing praises to Marxism-Leninism as they will to the Free Market, so don’t confuse whatever bullshit they spout to get to and stay at the top of the pile in an the power structures created by a specific ideology with their actual beliefs and don’t excuse the failures of the structures created by that ideology that allow such people to get to the top.
Even if the “Revolution” isn’t led by assholes, any power structure which centralizes power and doesn’t have hard to subvert mechanisms for constant change of who is in power, attract the worst vermin and they’re the one who will knifes as many backs as it takes to get it and keep it so they’re far more likely to get it than “good people”. This is true even in Power Duopoly systems like the US, and much worse in power monopolies like the Soviet Union and even Modern Russia.
That blaming of “others” for one’s own failures is just you having internalised the typical propaganda from the power hungry assholes (just as much from the ones portraying themselves as Fascists or from the ones portraying themselves as Communists) to deflect the blame for their own actions away from themselves.
Back to the specifics of your point, the inherent weakness of Socialism and Communism as opposed to more Democratic systems like Social Democracy, is that the former require a Dictatorship Of The Proletariat to reach the final utopia which was Equality For All, and invariably that supposedly temporary step were power and the Means Of Production are centralized becomes permanent, and they’re exactly the kind of structure that pulls is the worst assholes: Lenin was probably somebody who, at least to begin with, had his hearth in the right place (though with him too, the Power Corrupts dictum applies), whilst Stalin was a pure Sociopath.
hexbear has entered the chat
lemmygrad
lemmy.ml too increasingly
I’m seeing more and more tankies migrate to lemmy.world, because they don’t do anything against them, but lemmy.world is also much less likely to get defederated by other instances. Fuck big, centralized instances. People should move to smaller, niche servers like db0, blahaj.zone, beehaw, etc.
It’s weird that Mao, Sun Yat Sen, and Chiang Kai Shek, were all part of the same pro-democracy party early on in China’s civil war.
Mao won the war, Sun Yat Sen got out of there, Chiang Kai Shek was pushed out and became dictator of Taiwan.
China is weird.
Also weird is that one guy caused most of the deaths from famine in both the USSR and China: A conman named Trofim Lysenko, who was lying about having a new science of agriculture… He was bury seeds way further than they could handle then faking his results to keep his job… Killed like, 30 million people who were ordered to take up his techniques.
About China, you know what they say, it’s easier to be the opposition than to actually govern. Many of those who govern end up being corrupt or incompetent or both.
Who knows if mainland China under ROC would have been better. People say that will be the case when we look at Taiwan. But Taiwan suffered from thirty years of so-called White Terror and Taiwan eventually democratising is arguably pure luck due to a man whose name escapes me.
The trajectory of history is never predictable. There are far too many factors to consider; factors which are themselves caused by chain reactions of previous factors and events, which themselves are influenced by other previous events.
Lee Teng-Hui is the man that helped Taiwan transition into a democracy.
If I remember it correctly, in China Mao ordered sparrow to be killed en masse because they supposedly ate the grain: turns out that what they ate were the pests that attacked the plants.
I had one of these fucks try to tell me that North Korea is very democratic.
They literally have democratic in their name!!1!1!! /s
A shitpile by any other name…
SEEEEE THEY HAVE ONE MORE PARTY IN PARLAMENT THAN THE USA!!!11!1! /j
heck you don’t even have to go that far. the second picture can be pretty much every republican president whos held office. When was the last ware we started happen while a dem president was in office?
Israel’s invasion of Gaza could be considered a proxy war
Howdy, Stretch!
It isn’t as much of a stretch as that created by Israel sticking their hands far up U.S. govt’s ass.
Wait, so the US is the puppet? Is the US fighting Israel’s proxy war? Do you people even know what you’re saying when you say stuff like this?
Of course not! US bad it’s as simple as that.
It is a stretch, but it’s also a proxy war funded by the US that escalated several fold under Biden
You’re gonna pop a shoulder soon!
A proxy war implies they’re using another nation to fight an enemy. Which enemy are they fighting? Palestine is not an enemy or threat to the US.
You could consider Ukraine as potentially a proxy war, but you’d have to be pretty stupid or pretty mislead to think Gaza is.
Source?
What do you mean “Source?” Are you asking for a source that Israel invaded Gaza? A source that the US funded it? A source that it escalated during Biden’s presidency?
They’re “stinkyonions”.
They’re asking for sauce.
I don’t see how. you would need to consider any military action by any ally then as a proxy war for any nation. So it would be a proxy ware for most of europe to and asia and a good part of both africa and the americas.
Also Ukraine
Operation Prosperity Guardian, started by Joe. That took me about 10 seconds.
More like a defense of merchant ships attacked by houthis.
I wouldn’t call that a “war started by Joe Biden”.
Well Wikipedia considers it a war, I bet the poor mother fuckers that died think so too, but that list has 7 other conflicts that Obama started, weirdly there isn’t a single one by the ultimate mega hitler everyone is talking about.
Megahitler closed a “don’t shoot while I’m running away” deal with the Taliban that Biden had to mop up, now you can hate on Sleepy Joe as much as you want, but that is Drumpf’s doing.
Another day, another comment I’ll block for stupidity.
The 10 people who died in the defense of merchant ship from houthis is totally comparable to the tens of thousands of homeless people, protestors, victims of police violence, inability to pay for medical care, resulting from Trump era policies, not to mention what banning abortion will do.
I’m not trying to defend Trump, I’m just saying that the proposition that all Democrats are bloodless pacifists is completely removed from reality.
Megahitler is currently focused on the enemy within, after that is exhausted they will need to start on the enemy without.
The US hasn’t declared war since WW2. Wikipedia will tell you that, too.
You don’t have to declare war for it to be a war. The US has carried out plenty of wars since WW2.
Sorry for your loss.
What
So the war on Ukraine isn’t a war because Putin didn’t declare it? You guys are delusional.
Oh well if Wikipedia says it is then I guess we have no choice. Who invented the toaster again?
ultimate mega hitler
If Trump wins and he starts marching the Latino and queer people into camps like in the threats his people are making, I want you to remember that you said this.
Absolute lunacy. You really believe this?
Do I really believe that they’ll do what they’re threatening to do when they get into power if they get into power?
Yes, I do. Why shouldn’t I? Why would I even want that risk?
There’s already an ongoing transgender genocide in the U.S. caused in great part by Republicans. Why would I want to make that worse?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United_States
Show me where anyone is threatening internment camps for gay people.
The Latino thing is going to be the exact same thing that all 4 of the last sitting presidents did, but you’re going to act like it’s worse when someone red is in charge.
Go make another account, this one is getting blocked en masse.
Good, I’d rather not talk to people who settle their differences of opinion by stamping their feet and plugging their ears.
Ansar Allah could just take Iran’s fist out of their ass. But they seem to love being front line puppets.
Link?
Oooooh, this thread’ll let my blocklist feast for days as the Tankies come out to whatabbout
Oooh, block me too!
Bro tankie doesnt even mean anything anymore, what are you actually saying?
You said in another thread that you wished Russia had succeeded in assassinating a German arms manufacturer.
I think it means something in your case.
Add me! I don’t see a single decent leader in this meme, but governance/economic debate by mascot is counterproductive.
Done!
omg so true, esp on the OG Lemmy instance, where even the admins/creators of Lemmy on there are tankies.
That feeling when you get banned for mentioning Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
The pain of having to walk on eggshells just in case some admins decide to have a power mod day.
Ate an instance wide ban for saying democratic republics are, by definition, a form of democracy 🤷♂️
republics are, by definition, a form of democracy
I suppose that makes the DPRK a democracy?
You really thought you had something there, huh?
Just saying your point doesn’t hold up
That’s the average lemmy.ml user
There are far too many of these people on Lemmy~ Earth.
Has anyone ever thought that if you combined Stalin and Xi Jinping, it would probably look a lot like Kim Jong Un? Like, if you fed the two of them into a ‘What would our baby look like’ generator, I feel like it would be real close.
Too many
Liberal war criminals! Left wing criminals! Right wing criminals!
Everyone gets war crimes!
Yup.
Turns out, if you’re not willing to commit violence of some sort asserting power is pretty much impossible. (not saying we should assert violence, but historically, atleast since the agricultural revolution, it is rare not too see)
Edit2: see the responses to this comment below. I misunderstood the above comment and shouldn’t have taken mecfs to be endorsing violence.
And that doesn’t lead you to the conclusion that the state should not be exerting power over (or committing violence on) people? You really just wrote that and said ‘yea this is a great defense of my political view’?
Edit: Welcome to the mind of a liberal - where war crimes are excusable and state violence is just how things get done.
?
Never did I say my political affiliation was liberalism.
As for my comment above, you could probably have concluded (rightly) that I have anarcho-primitivist tendencies. This post wasn’t meant as an apologia for liberalism but as a critique of authoritarian leftism.
Apologies for my confrontational tone and for misunderstanding you. I read your comment as a justification of violence, but I can see that it wasn’t.
I got a bit hot arguing with people defending liberalism elsewhere in this thread and forgot that isn’t actually what the post is about haha.
No worries
You could stop being triggered by a comment thread on a forum and go do something with your time.
You aren’t trapped at your keyboard. You’re doing this to yourself lmao
I hear war isn’t that fun.
Lemmy is worse for political discussion than Reddit has ever been. At least Reddit has had the numbers for people to call out extreme views on either side, but the number of absolute nutjobs on here that either call for the downfall of capitalism immediately, or to let right-wing thinking slide as a natural progression of politics today. They’re the sort of people that post memes about murdering Nazis in the streets, but would cower at the sight of one - or those that would happily march if they weren’t so fucking awkward.
Some of us just want to enjoy the memes.
Imagine unironically comparing wanting the end of capitalism to fascism
Not sure I agree. Just from the number of pro-kamala threads and negative Trump threads. I don’t see that much in the way of extreme views.
Many people on .world are the so-called ‘Reddit refugees’. I’ve noticed a large portion of them tend to be liberals (as in neoliberals) from the United States and accordingly think of anything left of center as “radical/extreme leftism”. A few weeks back, they were all agitated over some leftist strawmen a few of their more vocal members have been fabricating to gripe about. This is likely just a continuation of the same.
I’m a Reddit refugee too. But thanks for the context. I haven’t seen the straw man. I have noticed a really strong streak of “blue no matter who” which is a terrible attitude to have, that’s the way the Maga folks think.
I’m not even in the US (I’m an Aussie) but my opinion is blue, but like, do better? We gotta do better. Please do better.
To be fair we have the same thing here with shills for the mainstream parties. (But we do have viable 3rd options)
The straw man is “tankies”. There are actual tankies on Lemmy, but these geniuses are using it like United States fascists use woke: to describe anything they don’t like and to shut down discourse. They’re pretty much blue MAGA. It’s gross.
I feel the same way, both about the cultish behavior and that people can and should do better. Unfortunately, the United States treats politics much like it treats sports, and I believe this is partly why idiocy like this manifests so frequently.
Tankies is not a straw man. There’s literally someone in this very thread lying about the events of Tianamen Square by claiming the literal tanks were totally peaceful and not used as part of the CCP’s oppression of people protesting.
It’s almost like you ignored the entire content of the comment you responded to so you could refute a point that isn’t being made.
blue maga is a nonsensical term. MAGA literally want to end democracy and execute their "enemies’. The people you describe as blue maga are…checks notes…shutting down discussions on social media.
The dramatic irony of your discourse poisoning comment in response to a comment about poisoning discourse may be immeasurable using today’s technology.
Yo. I’m not American. (Have lived there before)
But this is hilarious… Maga and the republicans have used the most horrendous language and discourse for the last 8 or so years…
Democrats been little pussy cats…
This shits undoubtable.
Facts… If you are maga, you want a king in America… or are a complete idiot. Like so much so, that you deliberately avoid the evidence of the crimes your ex president committees specifically against the American people and process.
There are almost no other options. Want a king/fool.
They’re doing more than that, but clearly you’re not interested in discourse so much as… Checks notes… Looking for opportunities to tell people they’re wrong, so I’m not going to waste my time explaining further.
Unfortunately I see tankie sentiments expressed far too often on Lemmy. Case in point this very thread: https://lemmy.world/comment/11331168
I did see this kind of extremist view expressed on Reddit too, but far less commonly than here.
The extremist views are almost entirely left wing, as in like literal communism. Not like how Republicans call everything communism, but people who want honest to god Marxist-Leninist communism.
And then there’s the tankies, who pretend to like communism but actually just simp for geopolitical enemies of the US.
