It’s very much like how people have created cults, slowly pushing the boundaries people will accept, while also claiming to be the authority of everything and accept no blame. And people crave a sense of belonging, and community. By the time people find out they are following a monster they are so far down the wrong path they feel trapped and it’s the path of least resistance to just go with it. Also an example is made of anyone trying to rock the boat.
Was an episode of The Dollop (podcast) about a teacher that created a cult of his students to show them this exact scenario (how everyday Germans got behind Hitler). I’ll look it up later if nobody beats me to it before then.
Edit - nevermind found it faster than I thought I would.
It’s not just like how people created cults, it’s the exact same recipe. They are cults. I have a friend who is obsessed with true crime podcasts about cults, like, listened to the final recordings of the Jonestown massacre where you can hear people dying from cyanide poisoning in the background obsessed, and he was recently telling me how both Trump and Hitler’s speeches sound exactly like Jim Jones.
Can confirm. I’m currently listening to Transmissions From Jonestown and had this very same thought the other day. I haven’t heard many Hitler speeches but the rambling cadence of Jones and Trump are eerily similar.
this goes for brand fanbois too-- i’m in another thread full of people frothing at the mouth because i had the gall to point out how some report the company published didn’t make them particularly special within the industry. it’s sad seeing grown ass adults whiteknighting for a corporation, of all things
I don’t really see the difference between what you call patriotism and nationalism. It’s both identity politics in favour of the powerful. If I focus on “loving” my country, I might get distracted that both I as well as my siblings from other countries get exploited by the ruling class.
I get what they mean in that it’s a thin line between the two, especially in the US. I was recently talking to my dad, a Bernie Sanders voter who is about as left-leaning as I’ve ever seen, and he was talking about how after 9/11 happened the country really banded together and there was a real outpouring of patriotism. I told him that what I remembered from the days after 9/11 was that attacks against Jews doubled overnight, attacks on Muslims more than tripled, and increased against pretty much any other kind of minority you can think of.
American patriotism and nationalism is basically a “to-may-to, to-mah-to” situation. Patriotism in the US is defined by things like 9 year old kids pledging their undying loyalty to the flag of the country with a hand over their heart every morning at school.
“Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than “politics.” They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.”
- Naomi Shulman
I never understood how normal, kind Germans in the 1920s could be so brainwashed that they’d turn into monsters just a few years later.
Now I’ve lived through it and seen the same transformation within my own family. It’s incredibly sad.
And scary!
It’s very much like how people have created cults, slowly pushing the boundaries people will accept, while also claiming to be the authority of everything and accept no blame. And people crave a sense of belonging, and community. By the time people find out they are following a monster they are so far down the wrong path they feel trapped and it’s the path of least resistance to just go with it. Also an example is made of anyone trying to rock the boat.
Was an episode of The Dollop (podcast) about a teacher that created a cult of his students to show them this exact scenario (how everyday Germans got behind Hitler). I’ll look it up later if nobody beats me to it before then.
Edit - nevermind found it faster than I thought I would.
It’s not just like how people created cults, it’s the exact same recipe. They are cults. I have a friend who is obsessed with true crime podcasts about cults, like, listened to the final recordings of the Jonestown massacre where you can hear people dying from cyanide poisoning in the background obsessed, and he was recently telling me how both Trump and Hitler’s speeches sound exactly like Jim Jones.
Can confirm. I’m currently listening to Transmissions From Jonestown and had this very same thought the other day. I haven’t heard many Hitler speeches but the rambling cadence of Jones and Trump are eerily similar.
this goes for brand fanbois too-- i’m in another thread full of people frothing at the mouth because i had the gall to point out how some report the company published didn’t make them particularly special within the industry. it’s sad seeing grown ass adults whiteknighting for a corporation, of all things
And i still don’t understand it, even if I’m seeing it happen live with my own two eyes
There really is something wrong
Patriotism is one helluva drug. Also: the socdems and the liberals helped.
I’m not sure it’s accurate to call it patriotism. It’s fine to love your country.
This is nationalism, in other words “my country is better than yours”, or “I’m better than you because I live in a better country than you do”.
Agree to disagree.
Care to expand because this seems like a pretty extreme position?
I don’t really see the difference between what you call patriotism and nationalism. It’s both identity politics in favour of the powerful. If I focus on “loving” my country, I might get distracted that both I as well as my siblings from other countries get exploited by the ruling class.
I thought I explained it already. You can love one thing without it automatically meaning you must hate something else.
I get what they mean in that it’s a thin line between the two, especially in the US. I was recently talking to my dad, a Bernie Sanders voter who is about as left-leaning as I’ve ever seen, and he was talking about how after 9/11 happened the country really banded together and there was a real outpouring of patriotism. I told him that what I remembered from the days after 9/11 was that attacks against Jews doubled overnight, attacks on Muslims more than tripled, and increased against pretty much any other kind of minority you can think of.
American patriotism and nationalism is basically a “to-may-to, to-mah-to” situation. Patriotism in the US is defined by things like 9 year old kids pledging their undying loyalty to the flag of the country with a hand over their heart every morning at school.
“Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than “politics.” They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.” - Naomi Shulman