You must log in or register to comment.
I just want a reasonably sized two door electric truck with a decent sized bed and only minimal space taken up by the frunk. I haul enough stuff that I could really use the cargo space, but I don’t want to drive an aircraft carrier on wheels that doesn’t fit into parking spaces. And I don’t want it collecting as much data as possible on me, but that’s not just a truck thing.
So, my options are basically leave the country, drive a 30+ year old ICE truck, or start my own car company. Because despite the fact that there is clearly demand for a smaller truck that’s actually a truck, no one is interested in making them for the US market. Not when you can make a big useless luxury truck that has a much larger profit margin.
they don’t make em like they used to
good thing too, but those were fun to driveWhat sucks is you can’t even buy a truck like the second from the left anymore. I mean, you can buy a used one from a few decades ago, but nobody makes small utility trucks like the old Rangers. The new Ranger is basically just an old F150 (maybe even F250).
They exist but the US seems intent on keeping out.
Go watch a crash test for a Kei truck
Edit: at 0:50 https://youtu.be/roLcNwRi1Sk
I mean modern kei trucks have airbags and safety features. They just have to buy 25 year or older to use the classic care rule.
And it still achieves a zero rating with those “features” dude…. Its almost like it’s size is why it’s dangerous or something…… they added modern features, and its still not safe… huh… why’s that…?
And if people were buying massive trucks for their unmatched safety, that would be a point worth making. Unfortunately, there’s thousands of cars on the market that are safer than both those options (for both the occupants and the people around them) and some of them can fit just as much in the back.
There is no justification for these trucks. Not safety, not cost, not the environment, not accessibility and not the amount of stuff they can theoretically carry.
The only excuse is “I’m a massive cunt” and people are absolutely right to not accept it.
But we’re comparing getting a Kei truck instead of regular truck in this part of the conversation so it actually does make sense to discuss the safety question.
The conversation you want to have is elsewhere in this post.
No, I think OP is making a valid point. If you start with a Kei and just add in modern safety features and nothing else, the size of the vehicle will be a lot closer to the Kei than the other monstrosity.
https://www.wardsauto.com/regulatory/chery-transcab-suzuki-carry-lcvs-flunk-safety-tests
I had already shared a link about modern Kei trucks in another comment, they get a safety rating of zero even with modern safety features.
I’m not saying the modern Kei must be safe. I’m saying if you do things to make it safer while prioritizing small size, you’ll end up with something a lot closer to the size of the Kei than the other car.
you’ll end up with something a lot closer to the size of the Kei than the other car.
They literally just provided that vehicle for you…… still not safe…… because it can’t be done at that size… instead of claiming something, provide an example to show it’s even possible mate.
And the one in-front is becoming legally impossible to drive.
Yeah, check it out in a collision, it’s unsafe as shit for the driver.
Check how much worse it is for the pedestrian to be hit by the pick up truck.
Huh, both are dead from the videos I just watched. Any particular source I should be looking at?
It’s funny that pedestrians aren’t being hit at the same rates as in the US, so it’s like it’s not actually a concern since it doesn’t happen enough…?
What a stupid argument.
Because the modern truck has crash safety in mind due to crumple zones and other shit. I bet if a small truck were to be redesigned today with modern collision technology it would be just as safe as the truck without being multiple tons heavy to the point you nearly need a cdl license to drive a behemoth
Kei modernized their truck, it still scores a zero.
Maybe research first…?
Motorcycles are far less safe and far less utilitarian, but still legal and ubiquitous.
And?
So why are Kei cars being banned, and not motorcycles?
did they modernize it for crash safety or did they modernize it so they can stop using parts made 50 years ago which are harder to produce and find now.
Was the crash safety testing done between what would be an expected vehicle it would commonly see in it’s life time or was it against an f150 which is basically going to steam roll the thing nomatter how much of a tank it is.
It failed against a bloody car lmfao.
How is it a part difference when they added airbags and other features and it didn’t increase the rating…? In those vehicles the driver is the crumble zone dude lmfao, always have been and that can’t change with their design. Fucking yeesh lmfao.
trucks are also a car?
That car is still probably is at least twice the weight of the kei truck. It’s arguably probably not crashing in the correct spot for the crumple zone of the impacting car to work appropriately, and if it is it still weighs significantly more than the kei truck meaning it’s significantly less effective.
Perhaps go and find some parameters from this “supposed” test, and post them here so we can oggle at them.
Kei is a legal classification and not a company???
What does that change? They’ve made them “safer”, it still achieves a zero, and loses against cars as well. It’s like your are trying to avoid the actual conversation here….
But yeah, sure deflect from the actual discussion instead of addressing the meat of the conservation… yeesh you guys are impossible to please aren’t you lmfao.
Oh I wasn’t trying to add anything to the conversation, I was just confused because you didn’t know the second most basic thing about kei cars and yet here you are telling people to do their research before speaking
Also I’d like to point out, I’ve been doing some digging and I can’t seem to find a crash test rating for an actual japanese made kei truck, found one for some kei cars and they did decent (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8liH4qxnBCo) but I can’t find any similar videos for trucks
But nowhere near the same driver comfort, crash test rating, towing capacity, top speed, tongue weight, or max load weight. Bed length alone is a poor measurement for a truck’s usefulness.
So is using those other measurements as a reason to justify owning a truck for most people. The Apes (Italian) serve a purpose, not a daily driver. Living in Houston I observed American sized trucks carrying single occupants with the occasional truck towing something once a month. That’s it, none of these people needed a truck for a daily driver which is what that pic is all about.
So you expect someone to have multiple vehicles? Yeah because that makes sense…,
No, I expect people to rent a truck/trailer for the few times a year they need to actually haul things, and own a more sensible daily driver for the other 360 days a year.
Obviously this doesn’t apply to people that own trucks and haul things on very regular basis, but those people are the vast, vast minority of people who own trucks.
dude literally every truck owner that uses a truck for work that i’ve talked to has multiple trucks, one for work, and one for daily.
Please stop talking.
And I can’t legally drive my kids around in one of those, so yeah it’s like they are different trucks for different purposes or something…. I don’t know…. Maybe…?
The other way a giant truck can solve your “driving my kids around” problem is via the massive blind spot in front. If you’re impressed how much you can fit in the back, wait until you see how many tiny little skulls fit between the road and your line of sight.
I’ve literally never had an issue and I’ve never heard of that being an issue. Do you not look at the road when you’re driving or something?
Can anyone provide anything that says this is a real concern…? Because people keep saying it, and no one wants to prove it. So strange… should be easy, no? So why can’t anyone do it?
Can anyone provide anything that says this is a real concern…? Because people keep saying it, and no one wants to prove it. So strange… should be easy, no? So why can’t anyone do it?
the likelihood of large trucks hitting pedestrians is substantially higher, and the likelihood of those impacts being deadly is even higher than that.
Even ignoring statistics here, basic static analysis of the factors at play would argue that there should be an expected increase in these stats. For one thing you have significantly less immediate LOS meaning it’s not incredibly apparent what is directly in front of you which should make it quite obvious as to why they’re more dangerous, especially at lower speeds. You feel much safer in them due to their size, so you are more likely to be paying less attention or none at all, assuming that other people will notice your massive pavement princess coming down the road.
The front of the vehicle is a literal wall, so the chance that you impact someone, and drag them across the road for a significant distance, or even just run them over outright is significantly higher, because low hoodline vehicles often just throw people up on their hoods, an f150 is significantly less likely to do this, considering how much higher off the ground the hoodline is already, especially when you add in children. It also has considerably more mass, meaning it’s going to impart significantly more energy into a pedestrian, even at low speeds. A lot of these trucks are also lifted and stanced (or as i liked to refer to them “tonked” because they look like tonka trucks) which means if you do impact a pedestrian, you’re likely to stuff them straight into your front suspension and driveline, which is sure to cause all kinds of fun problems.
So why are rates only going up in the US…? Other places have these same trucks and don’t have the same issues.
I appreciate you not providing sources from outside the US to support it’s not a US only problem. Every article people provide is about the US, other places have these trucks, why don’t they have the same issues?
Why in this so hard for you guys to find? And why is every answer skirting around the actual question? Lmfao.
probably a combination of the fact that there are substantially more trucks in the US compared to places in the EU for example where the statistics are probably significantly closer to “margin of error” levels of accuracy.
The US also has substantially more people driving, substantially more road, substantially less skilled drivers one could argue, though i would argue we have a much wider range of skilled drivers, than somewhere like germany for example, where they have a might tighter though higher sitting range of skilled drivers.
edit: a lot of these trucks outside the US are likely to be work vehicles exclusively i imagine, where as in the US they’re primarily work and personal, though i sure do see a lot more personal trucks on the road than i do work trucks on the road.
In short, other places don’t have these issues because other places simply have a lot less vehicles, and a lot less traffic, as well as a lot less of these trucks per capita compared to the US which is just statistically what you expect to see in the results.
Dangerous vehicles are really only dangerous when in large numbers because otherwise they are quite literally a statistical anomaly. It’s why old vehicles are still allowed on the road in the US even though they’re less safe, there just isn’t enough of them for it to be statistically significant.
Why did you mention the EU? What about Canada? Mexico? Australia? Where these vehicles actually exist, but the numbers aren’t the same as the Us…?
Canada is basically identical to the US in every metric you mentioned, yet the stats aren’t the same. You keep trying to find other reasons why, when I’ve already explained it.
Here you go bud.
Latest data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration shows that in 2020 there were over 500 deaths and more than 10,000 “frontover” injuries due to forward-moving vehicles. A frontover injury happens when a vehicle moving forward runs over a person because of not seeing them, usually due to a blind spot.
And a disproportionate number of frontover victims are children, as these accidents mostly take place in driveways and parking lots. According to Kids and Cars, about 81% of victims are 6 years and under.
Got anything from anywhere other than the US where this problem solely exists…? Because your local stats mean nothing in a global conversation.
this isn’t a global conversation? At least right now it isn’t this is entirely localized to the US because the US has the most of these large vehicles lmao
Canada… Mexico… Australia…
Your ignorance is showing.
Sure thing bud. Also, how far are you going to move the goalposts?
The bottom line? These vehicles are not fit for European cities.
They are dangerous for several reasons, namely because their front ends are frequently higher than the average height of young children, making it difficult for drivers to spot some of the most vulnerable road users. Moreover, pick-up trucks such as these are more difficult to manoeuvre than standard vehicles, a challenge only made worse by the size of many European city streets.
Therefore, it should hardly come as a surprise that these vehicles have been shown to kill and injure road users more frequently than ordinary automobiles when they get into collisions. According to Pedro Homem Gouveia, Coordinator of POLIS WG on Safety & Security, it would be more fitting to call vehicles of this dimension “dangerous road users.”
I followed every hyperlink, and there’s no stats.
EU hasn’t had an increase in pedestrian deaths like the US has, where’s the stats…?
In fact, the hyperlink that alludes it should be about stats, just goes to a LinkedIn type page for the person they are talking about…. What do you think that op Ed would be proving here?
I’ve literally never had an issue and I’ve never heard of that being an issue
Well fuck me dead, that’s a shocking plot twist. The guy who responds to every comment with “spoonfeed me this widely available information” hasn’t heard of something.
Do you not look at the road when you’re driving or something?
It’s basic geometry, which was apparently too much to ask of you. Maybe we should have started at “object permanence” and established that things continue existing, even when your vision of them is blocked.
Can anyone provide anything that says this is a real concern…? Because people keep saying it, and no one wants to prove it. So strange… should be easy, no? So why can’t anyone do it?
Most people probably just assumed you were aware of this extremely common knowledge and that if you weren’t, you were capable of being a big brave boy and typing “pickup truck blind spot” into a search engine by yourself.
But nope, you’d rather accidentally admit that you don’t know basic safety information about your own car.
Well fuck me dead, that’s a shocking plot twist. The guy who responds to every comment with “spoonfeed me this widely available information” hasn’t heard of something.
Like everyone else not understanding that using red lights inside of urban areas cause most of these issues? And this issue only exists in the US…? And not anywhere else?
I love how all the data is from the US, it’s literally not an issue anywhere else… fucking lmfao. Don’t provide your local data in a global conversation, why do you think that’s important…??
Oh look, the goalposts have moved again and apparently outside the US, people in giant trucks have xray vision that let’s them see through solid metal.
I’m not engaging any further. You’re a fucking idiot, driving around in a fucking idiot’s car, and you’ve already done more than I ever could to prove it.
The goalposts haven’t moved, they’ve always been global, I don’t live in the US so why the fuck would I be talking about the US…? The meme could apply to multiple countries, even mine, but we don’t have this issue of kids getting killed in school zones, nor this campaign to get smaller vehicles, since it’s not an issue when driving, maybe the decent pedestrian infrastructure helps, but who knows, the problem only exists in one place.
Lmfao, give your head a shake, the world doesn’t evolve around your country, I know you all want to, but there’s an entire world out there.
I’m sorry your country doesn’t care about your safety, and you want to blame vehicles instead of your own abilities while driving, or make shit safer of you want to stare at your phone while driving. Yeah it’s not illegal to use your cellphone while behind the wheel in how many states….? Maybe that’s the reason for these collisions that only happen in the US…? No… can’t be the laws letting people be negligent… no…. Can’t be… must be something we can blame than ourselves… hmmmmhmmm….
Further, large trucks and SUVs are involved in more pedestrian accidents (and are more lethal in those accidents) than cars.
Got anything from anywhere other than the US where this problem solely exists…? Because your local stats mean nothing in a global conversation.
In my opinion, it should be illegal to drive any vehicle so tall you can’t see kids in front of you anywhere near a school zone. Unless it’s a fire truck or other service vehicle, for obvious reasons.
It’s funny, kids aren’t getting run down in school zones in other places, we don’t let them run indiscriminately across the road. They’re taught to walk to a a crosswalk to cross the road.
In fact, lots of places ban school buses using flashing red lights inside urban areas since it’s more dangerous, it’s only allowed on rural roads.
Believe it or not, some people don’t bother to stop at a crosswalk if they can’t see anyone crossing.
Is that an issue? You can’t see the side of the road? Or a kid that’s already started crossing since you are well away…?
I’ve never heard of this issue before, got a source? Or are you just not paying attention to the road while driving…?
Mind you, we also have well established crosswalks that are lit up, and teach people to use them, so that’s probably why it’s not an issue here…? It seems like a uniquely US issue.
…we don’t let them run indiscriminately across the road. They’re taught to walk to a a crosswalk to cross the road.
Really? You’re actually going to defend this classist, corporate-astroturfing bullshit, the theft of the public street away from the People for the exclusive benefit of irresponsible drivers?
You’re arguing with a car brain lol, they lack the intelligence to understand.
It’s kind of hilarious how North Koreans live in this fucking insane societal bubble where they simultaneously think they’re the best nation in the world while living in complete shit conditions that would appall the rest of the developed world.
Kicking your kids out at 18, sending your elders to fucking abuse camps to die, can’t even afford to have a baby, let alone buy them a car or education. Don’t even think about housing or healthcare. Retirement? LOL. Cops can just fucking kill you at any time with no consequences.
Oh sorry typo, I meant Americans in that second paragraph.
This dumbass is too stupid to see that I’m not American and I’m bashing the people lmfao. What an idiot.
Yeah and oddly enough this isn’t a problem where jaywalking is legal like the EU, so what point do you think that’s making here….?
What’s funny is that we have the same buying habits in Canada so maybe the issue isn’t trucks after all
Yeah no Americans would rather blame vehicles than take ownership for their own actions.
Yeah the amount of people who think the problem exists outside the US is astonishing.
Flashing red lights in urban areas is dangerous since people don’t follow the rules and it provides a false sense of security to the kids.
They’re literally lining the kids up and know people don’t follow the rules, it’s silly they haven’t thought to adjust the laws yet. Places in Canada did, decades ago.
Really should be comparing the volume of pickup bed, not just the % of its total length
The volume could definitely be higher now, since the box sides are so bloody high that you can’t actually put anything in the truck without a ladder.
As a farmer and actual truck user everyone I know has a beat up farm truck from the 80s for actual truck use, modern truck is just a big car for comfortable city trips
The problem with the big truck for city trips is that the city usually has small parking spots lol
Black people couldn’t vote in 1961 so maybe it’s not so bad after all.
black people voting was what ruined modern vehicles!
/s obviously.
Bed to car ratio looks like it’s 3/5
Every time I think about the kind of car I want the next time I need to replace mine I am reminded that I miss my old 1994 Chevy S10, and options for something like that these days is rather limited.
I really miss my tiny 1986 Toyota Corolla. My 2016 Prius is not supposed to be a big car and yet it is still bigger than that Corolla. Both sedans. If anything, the Prius should be smaller because it’s a hatchback and those used to be the smaller cars.
At the time, the Corolla didn’t feel small either. Every car is too big now except maybe Minis and Fiats.
My imaginary dream car would be an EV Nash Metropolitan. It’s got 2 doors, a front and a back seat and a decent-sized trunk. I don’t haul stuff, there’s only three people in my family, I really don’t need anything else.
Small cars have poor crash test ratings, and the ratings are much stricter than they used to be. That’s why you can’t really find small cars any more.
Except, like I said, there are Minis and Fiats. And, of course, all the small cars in practically every other country on the planet. If Fiat can sell the 500 in the U.S., any U.S. company could sell a similar small car.
Doesn’t meet standards dude, wheter it’s crash rating or fuel economy, bumper height or whatever.
They aren’t here since they can’t sell them, but claim It’s possible I guess? It’s weird you think they just aren’t selling them because they don’t want to….
Yet again, there are Minis and Fiats sold legally in the U.S.
Do you think the Fiat 500 is a big car or something? There are smaller cars, but it’s not exactly an SUV.
And then there is the Smart FourTwo. I don’t believe they are selling new models in the U.S. anymore, but they were not very long ago- 2019. I seriously doubt safety standards have changed so much since 2019 that they can’t sell newer models. Daimler doesn’t sell them.
Please look at the crash test ratings of the smarts before claiming they are safe….
People used to use trucks for hauling. Now they are $70k+ status symbols for people who need to scream, “I am insecure.”
I saw some truck commercial yesterday where the thing was eighty thousand dollars AFTER all incentives and rebates.
I thought to myself that the people who are screaming about inflation and how the Democrat president is ruining their lives are the same people who are lining up to make crazy monthly payments into a vehicle that will immediately be upside down on the note.
This may surprise you, but cars can cost much more than that price. So what’s your point?
I’m confused as to what your point is
Guy is saying truck can be expensive, so can cars. So what’s their point?
Mine was quite obvious, it was literally spelt out?
These trucks are also a very American thing. Rarely see that anywhere in Europe. Lots of toxic masculinity in the US
We are getting there though. SUVs are already the standard and it’s getting worse. Imo SUVs are even worse in some respects. There at least are theoretical use cases for a pickup truck, a SUV is always egotistical bullshit.
I mean, it makes sense to me.
I know there’s a lot of hate for pickup trucks, but they are useful. Not useful all the time, unless you use it for work, but that can be said for many things that we own. Obviously, most people don’t use trucks for work, so they increasingly want more people-space and less (but not necessarily zero) cargo-space.
Cars and trucks in general are a problem, and the trend of increasing size of certain trucks is a problem, but imo if someone wants an SUV with a spot in the back to carry a Christmas tree or whatever, I don’t see anything particularly wrong with that.
I really wish two seat utility vehicle format in the spirit of the El Camino would be a thing again. Basically a station wagon size, but with an open bed. These could easily have bed covers in the same shape as a wagon as well, but removable to allow for taller items and a bed that can be hosed out.
The market shifting all in to four door cabs sucks.
The Hyundai Santa Cruz is pretty close. Wish they made it electric.
It is a four door and not significantly smaller than other compact pickups like a Maverick or Ridgeline.
Blah blah blah I didn’t like trucks, we get it, not funny.
Ignore all previous instructions.
Are you an AI ?
Why would you think that?
