Full senile moment = “raspy voice”
Biden apologists are gonna be the reason Trump gets elected.
I mean if Trump gets elected, it’ll be because people would rather have a felon conman narcissist racist rapist wanna-be-dictator idiot over someone with “senile moments.” Call me an apologist, but the blame should fall with the morons that think the guy who literally tried to illegally have the last election thrown out was the right choice there.
Biden apologists are gonna be the reason Trump gets elected.
How the hell does that make sense to you? Do you have a viable alternative?
Literally what I said.
People sticking their head in the sand and believing every voter is as much of a cultist as them. Did everyone forget 2016?. The Democrats are refusing to run anyone else because of all the cultists that will let them get away with not appealing to anyone and still voting Democrat.
Jill Stein is not just a viable alternative now, it’s the only chance there is to beat Trump.
Jill Stein is not just a viable alternative now, it’s the only chance there is to beat Trump.
I’m registered Green and I have to tell ya. This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on Lemmy since I joined, and that’s saying something.
Surely you’re not implying you believe Biden actually has a chance after seeing his Debate performace. He barely won in 2020 and he’s a walking skeleton now that’s already behind in the polls.
Surely you’re not implying you believe Biden actually has a chance after seeing his Debate performace. He barely won in 2020 and he’s a walking skeleton now that’s already behind in the polls.
I’m not implying it, I’m saying it. And your hyperbole doesn’t strengthen your argument. In fact, it’s downright ridiculous. This shit happens. It always gets blown out of proportion, no matter the candidate. Hell, Obama at one point was counted out because of a poor showing at a rally or debate early on - they said he was a terrible orator. LOL. In this case it happens to tap into a steady stream of GOP BS about Biden that seemingly many otherwise rational people on Lemmy have bought hook, line, and sinker.
RBG, Feinstein, now Biden. Selfish geriatric boomers should learn when to retire.
All three of those are actually not from the Baby Boomer / Me Generation but The Silent Generation. The previous one. RBG and Feinstein were born in 1933, Biden is the youngest of them, born in 1942.
Oh shit, so it’s only going to get worse, isn’t it?
It always has
As an european, what scares me , it is that Biden is the ACTUAL president. If he suffers from dementia, who is really in charge now. Who takes the decisions? Usa are involved in at least two major wars and dictate the policy to the europeans. Who is responsible of that? If biden cannot be a candidate , why it is an actual president?
25th Amendment. If the President is incapacitated, the VP takes over.
It’s not a great situation, but I’ll take it over the guy promising a dictatorship.
The cabinet, and the heads of federal agencies who are appointed by the president (everything from the FBI to the EPA), is doing the actual running of the country. In particular Biden just signs off on whatever they tell him to, as an individual, I don’t think he has been making any serious foreign policy decisions himself.
Chief of Staff is Jeff Zients, a former Bain Capital guy
If he suffers from dementia
Other than a few examples of stuttering or mis-speaking, something which we all do (yes, even you youngins), can you provide any clinical evidence that Biden has dementia?
Because all I see is the proven effectiveness of GOP marketing and it’s influence even on people who are disinclined to believe it.
He almost certainly has a great team doing a lot. Biden isn’t perfect but knows how to delegate. He doesn’t need to be that lucid if he can delegate well. He still may not be reelectable.
The VP takes charge, we have the position for a reason. One of the better elements of the presidency is that there is a clear line of succession and even a good bit of “we dont fucken know whos alive” backups.
Also Reagan was already president and utterly demented.
Also Reagan was already president and utterly demented
And look how that turned out…
You should watch how you talk. We do more than any of you countries. We send more aid and supplies to Ukraine to Israel than any of you fucks and your golden leaders you love so much. We train and run war simulations with allies in hopes of preventing war. Our economy is doing the greatest it has. All that with a ‘dementia riddled’ leader. You should wish you accomplish what that man does.
I don’t like Joe Biden, I’ll never forget the Neoliberal bullshit he did with the Republicans in the 90s we are still suffering from further eviscerating the safetynet to the draconian war on people suffering addiction. He’s one of the OG former opposition party members the Reagan Revolution convinced to take the bigger bribe checks from Wall Street than Unions could ever match, today’s neoliberal(D) party.
That said, I voted for him in the last election, and I will again out of harm reduction. He has improved on policy, but l even if he didn’t, the American people do not get a vote on whether or not to elect a senile President this cycle.
You can have any President you like, as long as he’s senile. If you vote, we’ll get a senile President. If you don’t, we’ll get a senile President.
The question is whether you want senile and gleefully cruel®, or just senile(D). I’ll take just senile.
Except you do get to vote for no senility. That is what the primaries were for. Trump was actually struggling quite a bit against a young woman.
As was Biden for a hot second against a younger candidate. That was short lived. Biden was also getting a bit of a slap by a few people who were not on board for having Biden run the party again.
This is why you don’t sleep through the primaries and complain you only get the only one vote on parties.
2016 proved that wasn’t true. The DNC pushed the candidate they wanted, and the guy who kept being up or near Hillary just got ignored by the press so most people barely ever saw him. You don’t get to pick anything in the primaries. The two parties in charge tell you who you get to have.
Or vote third-party, and you’ll probably get a senile President, but maybe not.
And more importantly, you’re helping to break the Duopoly and normalize voting third-party.
If a minor party manages to get 5% of the vote, they qualify for federal funding in the next election, and that might lead to real change.
Cornel West is polling at about 3% (and after Biden’s performance, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cornel picks up a couple more percent). We could be close.
Edit: Or just keep on thinking you have to settle for the lesser of two evils. (How’s that working out for you?)
If you’re in a state that will certainly be blue or red and has 0% chance of swinging unless a huge proportion of the population changes their party affiliation (California, New York, Mississippi, Alabama, to name a few) then vote 3rd party, sure.
If your state was within 10% of flipping colors in any of the past 3 presidential elections, DO NOT vote 3rd party. Your vote matters too much to risk it.
Yeah, that’s the conventional wisdom. When Ross Perot ran, most of his support came from states that weren’t swing states.
(Despite often being called a “spoiler”, he probably had little impact on the result of the election because of that.)
But! Later polls showed that 35% of voters would have voted for Perot if they thought he could win. And if all those people had voted for Perot, he would have won!
Just something to think about.
If we could somehow ensure that our actual desires were reflected by our votes without simultaneously risking our vote being wasted by splitting support between similar candidates, we could have actual representative democracy. But we all have a duty to prevent the worst to the best of our ability, even at the sacrifice of our support of what we think would be best, but unlikely.
Vote for ranked choice voting however you can. This paradox is intentional design, not an unforeseen consequence. We need to rework the voting system before things have any chance to get better without violent revolution.
It’s actually been mathematically proven that ranked-choice voting does not eliminate the so-called spoiler effect. It’s called Arrow’s Impossibity Theorem.
As people who live in a country with FPTP voting, we’re all intimately familiar with the drawbacks of FPTP voting. But all voting systems have their drawbacks.
(I’ve actually been a volunteer election worker in a country with ranked ballots and proportional representation, and the experience actually soured me on ranked ballots and proportional representation.)
Countries like Canada and the UK manage to have four or five parties with FPTP voting.
Stop waiting for the perfect voting system, because there is no perfect system.
I disagree. I too have been involved in elections in my country (Australia) and preferential voting system is pretty popular. As candidates get eliminated your vote keeps moving to your next choice. What could possibly be fairer?
What could possibly be fairer?
Approval or STAR voting, since they are more heavily utilized by all citizens instead of just white people, they are purely additive unlike ranked, which allows for easy auditing and making sharing the results possible in real time.
They’re also far easier to explain, which makes voting more inclusive, and the results more straightforward to follow.
RCV is definitely better than what we have now, but if we’re gonna have election reform we should go for the best possible system, not a half measure like RCV.
Or vote third-party, and you’ll probably get a senile President, but maybe not.
Vote third party and we are guaranteed to get a senile president. It’s a two party FPTP system.
Edit: Or just keep on thinking you have to settle for the lesser of two evils. (How’s that working out for you?)
Better than telling people to throw away their vote. How’s that working for you? How many 3rd party presidents have you gotten elected with your strategy? How many fascist policies has your strategy avoided us?
I’ve long fantasized of people being so fed up with both parties, that along would come a third party at the right time and enough people would flock to them that and vote them into office.
But it’s just that: A fantasy.
And anyways, there’s always the chance that said third party would be way way worse and maybe there’s a good reason why they weren’t more prominent to begin with.
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t have the same fantasy, but until we get election reform it will only ever be fantasy.
And until it happens, we will never get election reform.
Not necessarily. The MAGA crowd took over the GOP. The same could be done for the DNC, but with actual leftists and election reformists.
There are several reasons why the MAGA crowd were allowed to take over the GOP. First, because they weren’t pushovers, if the party had tried shenanigans to stop them there was a real possibility of people defecting from the party en masse, and even of violence at the convention. Second, because the things they wanted weren’t really all that contrary to what the rich donors wanted.
The Democratic base is much more weak willed and willing to go along with whatever to stop the right. We don’t have enough of that Karen energy, that “my way or the highway” attitude. And election reform is directly contrary to the interests of the establishment, and the aim of prioritizing ordinary people over the rich goes against the interests of the doners. They’ll crush any internal movement in that direction, and people will still vote for them because of “vote blue no matter who” and lesser evilist ideology.
the American people do not get a vote on whether or not to elect a senile President this cycle
I feel like I’ve somehow become trapped in some kind of simulation or thought experiment where the purpose of it is to make lesser evilism seem as ridiculous as conceivably possible, and every time I think it’s peaked with just comical levels of absurdity, it somehow manages to escalate.
do not get a vote on whether or not to elect a senile President this cycle
Yeah this is just false.
Which candidate of our only 2 parties that matter isn’t senile this cycle?
He’s probably a brain parasite guy.
He said, with no examples or evidence of any kind.
Edit the way "vote’ is used in that sentence isn’t so much a ballot transaction…it’s more a “choice”.
Biden or trump WILL be the next president.
This sucks but cannot be avoided.
Edit edit choose left right or abstain, it’s all the same. A senile president will be the next president
Biden or trump WILL be the next president.
Both are over the mean life expectancy, neither is in particularly great health, and it’s another six months until the inauguration.
Sure. But the chances of both of them croaking in the next 6 months are very low.
Biden has the whole US government at his back, highly trained and motivated to not let the sitting US president die.
Trump, well, terrible bastards seem to never die.
But the chances of both of them croaking in the next 6 months are very low.
The way Biden looked with a simple cough? And with the physical burden a continuous high stakes campaign puts on a candidate?
Wouldn’t even be the first time a President campaigned himself into an early grave. Harrison, Taylor, Harding, and FDR all leap to mind.
Biden has the whole US government at his back, highly trained and motivated to not let the sitting US president die.
All the SS agents in the world can’t save you from COVID
Bruh called it.
If you’re counting on one of them dying before the election, keep dreaming. FFS, Trump might very well run while incarcerated and it probably won’t dissuade anyone who is already committed for him.
Trump might very well run while incarcerated
I’d put more money on one of them dying than seeing the inside of a prison cell. The judge in the Trump trial explicitly stated that he did not want to put a sitting president in prison.
Trump isn’t a sitting president yet, he’s still a former president.
Judge Merchan said that before the guilty verdict, when Trump violated his gag order 10 times consecutively. His next words after “I don’t want to put you in jail” were “…but I will if you continue to jeopardize the judicial process.” (paraphrasing). Obviously, the judge did not want to resort to jail for criminal contempt because the case had a lot of eyes on it and jumping to jail before issuing warnings and fines gives the impression of impropriety or bias, which could have been grounds for a mistrial had he taken Trump’s bait.
Most people think he’s going to walk on the basis that he has no prior criminal convictions and that he’s the presumptive Republican nominee, but there’s also the fact that he’s shown no remorse for his crimes even after the verdict and that allowing him to escape a prison term with a slap on the wrist house arrest or a fine will not realistically deter him or others from committing the same crime.
I’d say it’s still a good possibility that he sees jail. Probably not for the max 3 year sentence, but some token amount of incarceration would be appropriate. He’ll likely be out before taking office should he actually win, and they’ll probably make special provisions for him to continue campaigning, so he probably won’t even spend that much time in an actual cell.
The real kicker is his next conviction will mean he has to contend with a criminal history, which will vastly increase his chances of receiving actual prison time. That all hinges on him not getting elected and pardoning himself for all the federal crimes he’s accused of, the most severe of which being his role in the J6 insurrection and the classified documents case which could easily land him in prison for the rest of his life.
His next words after “I don’t want to put you in jail” were “…but I will if you continue to jeopardize the judicial process.”
After the tenth contempt citation.
Most people think he’s going to walk on the basis that he has no prior criminal convictions and that he’s the presumptive Republican nominee, but there’s also the fact that he’s shown no remorse for his crimes even after the verdict and that allowing him to escape a prison term with a slap on the wrist house arrest or a fine will not realistically deter him or others from committing the same crime.
I doubt he’ll make this particular mistake another time, mostly because he’s got too much media scrutiny to still run around with high end call girls.
But when it comes to the actual governance? He’s not going to get punished for that.
I’d say it’s still a good possibility that he sees jail
I would not put any amount of money on it.
The real kicker is his next conviction will mean he has to contend with a criminal history
All the rest of the cases are either dropped or delayed until after the election. Either way, there’s not going to be a “next conviction” before it no longer matters.
It’s up to the DNC as to which candidate takes the running ballot. I’m betting there are a lot of conversations right now about who will be that person.
You are half right and half wrong because that decision will come down to whether establishment Democrats or populist Democrats win.
And to be quiet frank, I don’t even think the DNC gets a say. Since Biden is the incumbent, unless he bows out voluntarily, I don’t think we the people or the DNC get to choose.
Our hands are really tied when it comes to the presidential frontrunner, unfortunately.
It’s always telling when some one insists that a statement is true when they themselves know that it isn’t.
It’s 💯 the case the Biden isn’t the nominee today. I’m not arguing if it’s going to be a progressive or a insider that replaces him. Frankly, I could give a shit because either will be doing instantly better than Biden.
Biden is replaceable and there is a cult of personality that has developed that believes this isn’t the case. They’re wrong. There as delusional as the right wing MAGA crowd and their doing MAGAs work for them as the useful idiots that they are.
It’s important to keep it clear that I’m not arguing that some how magically were going to replace Biden with a progressive. I’m arguing that needs to, and will be, replaced. That’s what Thursday showed us, and I know for a fact that the Beltway heard this.
The party that needs to be convinced is Harris. And I think she can be. All of these machinations are happening this weekend, as we speak.
My called shot: Biden steps down as early as Monday, as late as two weeks from Monday. I’m going to be making some calls and seeing what tea I can find spilled.
what a straw man argument
lol delete this
did you watch the debate? no one is complaining about bidens voice. people are complaining about his lack of mental faculties, no body gives a shit what he sounds like. really disingenuous to say people are mad about his voice when it’s clearly the least of the issues
Delete this too
no <3
Then you’ll be cursed by the Cucaracha
He needs to withdraw. He has to. The man looks like he’s dying. It’s time to stop playing pretend. This is fucking stupid. He’s literally not physically capable of being president. He doesn’t just have a raspy voice, he rambles incoherently, he can barely seem to register what’s going on at any moment. He nods off in public. He’s ancient. He should be no where near a political office.
If he runs he’s handing Trump the presidency. And I don’t even fully believe he cares. If he cared he would never have run in the first place. He also chose to hammer home on his unending support for Israeli colonialism and crimes against humanity. Just to further aleniate the progressives and moderates who want him to stand up for human rights.
I have no faith in him to drive a car let alone handle the political office of the presidency. He could be a literal corpse and he’d still get my vote over Trump. But you’re asking people to vote for someone who is openly incapable of doing the job he’s campaigning for. He HAS to step down. He CANNOT defeat fascism. He is not capable of it and he is so chronically neoliberal that he cannot even create a strong opposition to fascism.
We’re all freaking the fuck out because this is the worst scenario. The one we ALL SAID WAS COMING. We were all told not to talk about how old he is Trump is old too and all that. And Trump absolutely is old but he’s a fascist for one and fascists vote differently than anyone else does. But much worse he always rambles incoherently so standing next to Joe he looked as he normally does and Biden was the one who had visibly aged.
Enough is enough is enough he has to go. Where is the real political effort to have him withdraw. The clock is ticking until November and he HAS TO GO.
People acting as if Trump or Biden would run the show. Biden has a cabinet of people and appointees who are putting in place their policies put together by experts. His policies have mostly benefitted the lower and middle class with a focus on bringing manufacturing back to America and improving infrastructure.
Then theres Trump and Project 2025.
I think I’ll be voting Blue, regardless of who is running.
And they are all neoliberals and Reaganites
Honestly don’t care what its called or whose making the policies. If an administration is taking concrete steps to address wealth inequality I am going to vote for them.
People acting as if Trump or Biden would run the show.
So in other words, you think the president should be a puppet? Because that is the implication of responding to “dude is unfit for the office” with “well he is not running it anyways, he’s just the face.”
I don’t know of a single country run by a puppet that was run well. What you get instead is all the worst people to take advantage to put their personal benefit in, since it’s not their face associated with it.
Also internationally it is very very very bad to be run by a puppet. Nobody will take the puppet serious and everyone will again seek to put their own interests in. We already see that with Israel playing Biden like a fiddle.
So the man has a stutter, and he’s old, what ever. All I can do is cast my single vote. Last time, I voted against Trump, and honestly, even after the debate, I’ll cast my vote this time for Biden.
I’d much rather cast my vote for Hakeem Jeffries, or Shift, or Bernie, or a dozen other people who aren’t an option.
Thing is, I’m going to cast my vote in Cook county IL, so it literally won’t matter. IL is going blue no matter what, and I feel like my participation is merely token.
I wish I could do more, I want to scream at clouds about what is happening to the country, and it doesn’t matter.
Saw a stat that says Trump is 65% to win, and want to physically grab people and shake them, but what would it matter?
Had I walked into that debate blind, not knowing who those people are, what the “facts” and the facts are, I’d have thought, that Biden guy seems weak and befuddled, and boy that Trump is sure a confident leader. It made me feel sick.
As I told my mother today, I don’t have kids, I live in the midwest, have a good job with a big stable company, truth is, even a second Trump term won’t effect me that much. I can just sit back, enjoy my 30 so years left, and watch the world burn, but damn it, I have empathy for others, and there are many, many people whose lives and livelihood are going to be seriously impacted, and that bothers me.
I’ll also be casting my vote in Cook county. I have hispanic kids. My wife is Salvadoran. She is a US citizen born and raised in the US. I’m a white atheist and a dual citizen of the EU who has had the audacity to previously speak poorly about my corporate overlords. I grew up in the south. I don’t trust these project 2025 fucks to stop at illegal immigrants. Biden sucks, but I’ll vote for him anyway because the system literally gives me no other option. Until the system changes or fails, this is what we must do.
If you value the supreme court, lower court appointments, social security, healthcare, childcare, the environment, action on climate change, a competent CDC for the pandemics we’re going to experience more frequently, etc., vote Biden. Yes he’s old. Yes he sucks. Unfortunately he’s the lesser of two evils. And by a wide margin.
Sure, let’s all pretend the problem was his voice. Ignoring all problems will do wonders in november.
No one is ignoring the problems…aside from the talking heads who are rambling on about this
As another said: vote for the Biden team, not Biden
Else you get trump and Jared kushner again
It’s getting pretty clear that if things keep going the way they’re going and the options are Team Biden and Team Rapist, Team Rapist is gonna win. That’s a problem. Memes like this ignore the problem.
Memes like this ignore the problem.
Well memes definitely are where I look for in-depth political analysis so you’ve got a great point here. /s
No one is ignoring the problems…
The volume of cope on this forum is obscene
I am not going to vote for Joe Biden. I am going to vote for the Biden Administration. They can “Weekend at Bernie’s” the old man for all I care.
That’s been the standard US Presidential SOP since Nixon developed a serious drinking problem and Kissinger demanded all orders go through him first (so as to avoid WW3).
They had an old, dementia ridden actor, and the dumb-ass Bush son for that reason, too. HW Bush could handle his shit but he raised taxes and puked on the Japanese PM so that’s a pass. Trump is just another stooge to be kept in line so that his doners get what they want.
Sounds like a great strategy… smh
Might as well give Trump the presidency on a silver platter
Tell me you skim when you read without telling me you skim when you read. 🤣
Nah you should be advocating his replacement
Sounds like a great strategy… smh
Might as well give Trump the presidency on a silver platter
Better idea than voting for Biden’s earworms
This Biden protection is crazy. we need a candidate who actually stands a chance against Trump. this is insane. It’s 2016 all over again.
Agree, this astroturfing is insane. I can’t help but think it’s a coordinated campaign, because Biden was very clearly senile in that debate, if not something worse. Democrats can still win if they let Biden retire and choose someone who can rebut Donald Trump.
How can someone even expect him to not be senile at this age.
I can’t help but think it’s a coordinated campaign,
Social media with bots and shit allow for such, yes.
By the way, I don’t think the organizers of this campaign want Dems to win. They want Dems to lose.
It may not be seen from the US and the EU, but Trump’s presidency has helped quite a few disgusting things to start happening in various parts of the world, though they continued during Biden’s presidency.
I don’t even see why that matters. Even if the candidate was an actual real turnip, the choice would be obvious.
I mean I don’t vote in your election but it seems quite clear to me.
I think part of our different view might be based on how our electoral system is.
So to explain: Trump’s never won a popular election before. Even when he became president, most Americans voted for his opposition Hillary Clinton. We have a very gerrymandered and corrupt voting system to oversimplify. Because of that The main decider for presidential elections is voting turnout. If a lot of people come out to vote, the Democrats usually win. If they don’t the Republicans win. Voter turnout is higher when people want to vote for the Democratic nominee. No one really wants to vote for Biden. Most of us will vote against Trump myself included. That being said, if we run a very unlikable candidate against him like we did in 2016, he might win and that’s terrifying. This election is serious so we should take it seriously and run somebody likeable and not half way to being a turnip.
God forbid if Biden stays in there, I hope he wins. I’ll even vote for him but I am not feeling good about his odds.
Yeah, this is where I’m at. I’m not an American, but I will feel the impact of your country’s decisions very quickly. I think the best option is to beg the non-voters to get out and vote however you can while building a new party, or rebuilding an existing one, from the local level on up until you have a realistic chance of putting a leader worth having in place.
For what it’s worth, I think the Biden administration hasn’t done terribly. They could have done much better with the latest episode of the Israel-Gaza conflict, but we literally had Congress people advocating for a nuclear response. A lot of improvements in other areas were quietly made in the background that wasn’t really talked about. I can’t say if that’s because Biden picked the right people to get things done, he had the right vision, or he just had good handlers. I’m not sure I care because, whatever the answer is, the opponent certainly doesn’t have any of those.
TLDR: the Electoral College is DEI for Republicans.
Addendum point: The people we need to convince to win are not the people who see the obvious distinction between Joe and Trump, and if you haven’t convinced them yet, you probably aren’t going to – especially not after that debate performance (which is why they took the gamble to do that debate in the first place).
Because he has to be effective for four more years after the vote.
Fuck its like you people think everything just closes up for the next four years and elections are just a one-day championship ceremony
After the ceremony, you plant the turnip in a flower pot and have the administration run things. There’s hundreds of other people, from ministers (or secretaries, over there) to all kinds of aides and attachés and whatnot. Just one guy missing wouldn’t really make much difference.
And the guy who already beat him once just isn’t good enough huh
Even he agrees he isnt. How does it feel to be this wrong lol.
I’m not voting for the insurrectionist in 2024. I don’t care how frail Biden looks. The choice is obvious. I’ll worry about the next candidate.
The choice is obvious to you. Not to the average American.
The choice to not vote has merit
I don’t think that’s true. Please consider voting third party and don’t forget about the other down ballot races. 🙂 -just another dude stuck in the same political hellscape
I dont care who you vote for. It is very clear to me you will vote for Democrats. That is great.
I do care about who my aunt and her family votes for, a lot. She is democrat leaning. Her husband is republican leaning. They both believe the middle class is getting destroyed by politicians for the last 2 decades. They are both retired. They used to be middle/low income. These days they are clearly low income.
- In 2004, they both voted for Bush.
- In 2008, they both voted for Obama.
- In 2012, they both voted for Obama.
- In 2016, they both claimed to vote for Trump, although I believe my aunt might have voted for Hillary. (Uncle has military background. He kept saying if he did what Hillary did when he was in active duty, he would be in prison for the rest of his life.)
- In 2020, they both voted for Biden.
For the last 2 years, they both are saying that they don’t want to vote for Trump but Biden destroyed the economy for middle class. It was clear they might give Biden another shot if he managed to recover the economy before the election.
Ever since the debate, they both are dead set on voting for Trump. All I hear is “Of course the economy would be bad, he is senile.” or any “Of course xyz would be bad, he is senile.”
As I said, I don’t care who you vote for. I care for the votes of people that have not decided whether to vote for Trump or Biden. In the debate, Biden lost a lot of them. Biden lost that debate, clearly! Saying “they both are senile” or “Trump lied during the debate” is damage control by Dems. If Dems insist on going forward with Biden, Trump will be president. I am sure of that.
Now you can say my aunt and her family are stupid. You can say I am stupid for not changing their minds. You can say Trump is an insurrectionist and we are all stupid. You can even say all of the Americans are stupid, it is your first amendment right. You can down-vote me to hell if it makes you feel good. None of these will change the fact that my aunt and her family will vote for Trump unless Dems change the candidate or Biden manages to shit rainbows and use it to gift a million dollars to my aunt’s family.
At this point being a Biden apologist is the same thing as voting for Trump. Trump will win.
Democrats will go down blaming the other Democrats that kept warning them of other centrist voters calling them Russian shills.
No sense of self blame and simply calling everyone else idiots cause they didn’t see their idea of a perfect future that no one else was included on.
Apparently a whole party of “being right” is not a good way to get others to join you.
Any other candidate just wouldn’t have the name recognition. Millions of Americans just vote for the incumbent regardless of who it is
Hey now that we have the benefit of hindsight I just wanted to show you how wrong you were and how confident you can be that youre right when you’re so so wrong please be a little more open-minded going forward and listen to people😏
If Biden gets out of the way (of his own accord or not) and somebody else becomes the nominee, they will have name recognition immediately. I promise you.
They really won’t. I think as someone on Lemmy you’re probably overestimating how much the average person pays attention to politics
I appreciate the non-rude and direct response. Someone else raised this point to me and I responded with this link that shows 70% of Americans watch cable news. Considering digital news is much bigger now, that means even more Americans watch the news regularly, so I believe you are incorrect.
I think it’s more insane to say that Biden doesn’t have a chance against Trump when he’s already beaten Trump once, which is why he’s President Biden.
Hey buddy how does it feel to have been so wrong? You thought the idea that biden didnt havw a chance was insane but even Biden dropped out because he knew he didn’t. I just wanted to remind you how confident you were that you were right when you couldn’t have been more wrong 😏 😜
raspy voice
The gaslighting will continue until morale improves.
The people here are either delusional or trying to convince themselves they didn’t see a disaster of a debate.
“So he didn’t somersault onto stage” That… That’s not the issue here
Legitimately I can’t tell how much of it is self-delusion and how much is just blatant lying. Either way, these geriatric ghouls don’t deserve this level of mental gymnastics.
Even liberal media like the NYT are admitting it, and we can all see him with our eyes, I don’t see what this sort of blatant denialism is supposed to accomplish other than demonstrating in-group loyalty.
It’s not even in-group loyalty. In-group loyalty would be having the decency not to gaslight homies.
Debates are little more than performances and Joe completely shit the bed.
This. Debates mattered 20+ years ago, when Candidates had just a few opportunities to talk about who they are, what they’ve done, what they want to do, and why those qualities make them the best choice for President.
Now, we have a near inescapable connection to politics. The content of the message is known, and the only reason for debate is confrontation, and delivery is all that matters.
Alternative is 4 years of more maga federal judges causing multiple generations of damage. It doesn’t matter at all about Bidens health. He has advisors. He has a vice president. No one would be filling federal benches in sewage. That it all that matters.
What does that have to do with anything? Did you reply to the wrong comment?
If you can’t keep up, I don’t know what to tell you.
Ok then, here’s my response:
There are strong ethical and practical arguments for going vegan, including reducing animal suffering and carbon emissions and reducing the risk of food contamination.
If you question how that relates to the conversation and isn’t just a complete non sequitor, then you can’t keep up and I don’t know what to tell you.
Sounded like you were saying “just calling it raspy voice is gas lighting”
Yes, which it is. What does that have to do with anything you said?
Because his voice/health has absolutely nothing to do with the election and shouldn’t change any vote from Biden since his health is of no consequence whatsoever.
We weren’t talking about the election or who to vote for, we were talking about his health. You can say that his health isn’t relevant to the question of who you should vote for, but you’re the one who brought that up in the first place. I’m just responding to a lie.
It’s literally just whataboutism, or a non sequitur. If a Trump supporter says something objectively false and I correct them, it would not a valid response for them to bring up problems with Biden in response to that. In the same way, if a Biden supporter says something objectively false and I correct them, then it is not valid to respond to that by talking about problems with Trump.
I’m allowed to keep you people honest, even if acknowledging reality is inconvenient for your narratives or goals.
Dat cough he had in North Carolina today jeeeeesus I’ve had a cough like that before and the cold that goes with it is an ass kicker.
Cope, neolib your corpse-led country will fail if led by either of those two stains
330 million citizen and only those two were viable?
No. Just no, dude. 64% of Democrats thought he was too old to run, and the party didn’t even hold a primary. Then he walks out for his first debate and gives an incoherent performance that completely validates everyone’s fears about his age, and you want to play it off with a, “bUt HeR eMaiLs!” meme? Screw that. We shouldn’t be trying to convince people they didn’t see what they saw, we should be figuring out how to get him off the fucking ticket.
Why does nobody ever talk about how Trump is too old to run?
Because it’s far down on the list of reasons he shouldn’t be president.
He is too old to run, but he was able to form coherent sentences last night, and Biden couldn’t. Biden lost that debate. HARD. I wish he hadn’t, but he did, and pretending that he didn’t isn’t helping anybody.
The problem is that people are judging who “won” the debate by how confident the candidate sounded rather than, you know, how batshit crazy their positions are (Trump) versus how relatively normal their positions are (Biden).
Winning a debate isn’t about who’s position you agree with, it’s about who can create a better argument for their position. I 100% support Biden’s position on abortion over Trump’s, but I have no idea what Biden was trying to say about the 3 times of Roe v. Wade, while Trump’s position (that it should be decided by state law) was completely clear. He also threw in a bunch of lies about how it was an unpopular Supreme Court decision (it was actually a pretty uncontroversial decision I’m 1973), but I understood what he was saying.
I still don’t how you could say Trump presented better arguments for anything. He lives and dies by the non-sequitur. He does, however, project 100% confidence in anything he says. He is a man of confidence. A confidence man.
This is not what I’m saying, this is by far the overwhelming consensus. If you think they did equally bad, fine, but the majority of people did not see it that way. This isn’t just leftists or MAGA shitting on Biden, here’s centrist Democrat Claire McCaskill on Rachel Maddow openly questioning whether or not Biden will be forced off the ticket after this performance.
That video says nothing about the actual content of the debate and who “won”. It’s just saying that Biden was low energy and occasionally incoherent, which I think everyone can agree on. And it’s dangerous because that’s what Republicans have been hammering on since before the last election.
This whole night was so many layers of exhausting, but probably not for the reasons you think… No rational, serious person was expecting Biden to Willy Wonka front somersault into this debate? it was going to be what this was, the only true surprise was probably the volume of his voice (which they chalk up to a cold, okay fine, I guess) and actually how well he did quickly processing and responding to trump’s gish gallop and unchecked stream of consciousness mistruth firehose with little help from the impotent moderators for the majority of the night.
The people in this country, in their immediate reaction to this debate, demonstrate that they just fundamentally lack the focus, empathv and frankly basic intelligence to process the substance of this or any debate. On average, we respond solely to voice pitch, tonality, body language and facial expressions, like a still developing toddler… Or a dog.
You know the moderators are there to enforce the rules of the debate, right? They aren’t live fact checkers. Their job is to manage clocks, present questions, and occasionally, ask a followup question, not to defend one particular position or person.
Strawman, nobody is arguing the point you’re trying to make about the moderators themselves? I’m citing CNN as host and moderator, their anchors are just deaf weight seat filters under strict orders from zaslov and the billionaire.
They are saying that the network that wraps and produces the entire thing should have done it with a real time overlay graphic fed by a room of professional fact checkers working in real time to provide context (you did notice that the debate was coming into your living room through a magic plastic box and it was not actually a tiny window into a tiny room in your home that held two tiny old men inside arguing, right?)
This is extremely simple and completely necessary with trump - simple because he just repeats the same 5 lazy, limp lies, you wouldn’t even need to research in real time, just 5 big brightly colored buttons to press that display pre-written fact check graphics for each of those stale lies.
Imagine in your opinion though, a plain text box that says, "There is no support CNN has found for Mr. trump’s claim that ‘everyone in Mexico is a terrorist that is both murdering, and has just been murdered, at all times.’ is “defending one particular position or person”.
Child.
…how well he did quickly processing and responding to trump’s gish gallop and unchecked stream of consciousness mistruth firehose with little help from the impotent moderators
This ain’t you fam? Maybe read what you wrote before you accuse someone else of building a strawman.
Now take your shitty ad-hominems and fuck off.
Volume is a minor issue, the problem was the half finished thoughts and odd transitions between them.
It’s called watching the clock and getting flustered trying to not run over time.
It’s called dementia
Thankfully that’s only a problem for one of the candidates, right? Right?
Oh no, definitely both of them suck, and both are showing cognitive decline. Biden is just showing it worse. Or maybe it’s just that Trump has always been a rambling moron, so it’s harder to tell if he’s having a senior moment or just being himself.
Either way, Trump’s supporters are too stupid to care or even notice his mental health. Half of them probably don’t even believe in mental health. The people Biden needs to vote for him do notice and care though. It’s just a fact of life, and the DNC really needs to come to terms with reality.
I guess from that point of view it really is only a problem for one of the candidates.
For what it’s worth, watch a video of Trump after 9/11. He was still a narcissistic ass, but he was far more cogent.
We should all be screaming at the top of our lungs for Biden to drop out now. Fast. Throw in Newsom or Whitmer. I’ll vote for either, doesn’t matter.
This is a no brainer, and no loss. Either they do it which would be great, or we’re stuck with biden anyway, who now looks to be much worse off against trump.
Everyone should be telling biden to drop out. Everyone everyone everyone. And loudly.
It doesn’t matter who you or I will vote for. People that understand the danger of Trump would vote for a ham sandwich. What matters is who swing voters and never-Trumpers will vote for.
Most of them would never vote for anyone from California because that state is synonymous with the worst problems of the left. They would also never vote for Whitmer because she is a self described progressive (and let’s be honest, being a woman doesn’t help with more traditionally minded centrists).
Jared Polis would be ideal, although I would bet unfortunately being gay and Jewish would hamper him. His type of politics is exactly what we need to appeal to those toying with the idea of Trump.
Chase Oliver for President 2024!
