The president often had a weak, raspy voice during his first debate against Trump, in what Democrats had hoped would be a turning point in the race.

  • John Richard@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Are you willing to let Trump win though than have Biden step aside? That is what the DNC should be asking themselves. The polls are way to close for Biden to have that poor of a performance. If Democrats are seriously worried about Trump being the end of Democracy then they would not be okay with Biden being the DNC’s best choice.

    • jacksilver@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I think it’s to late to change things up. That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.

      That being said, I don’t think either Trump or Biden are in a state to actually run the country. Their cabinets are going to hold all the power, and I trust Bidens cabinet over Trumps any day.

      • John Richard@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I agree. I’ll vote for Biden if I have to, but if Trump wins I’m not blaming RFK Jr like they blamed Bernie and Jill Stein in 2016. I’ll blame them and likely never vote for a majority political party again.

      • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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        4 months ago

        Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position. Seriously, any other DNC politician would be better than Biden even if they changed right now or in the next few months. All you need is some politician who is about 50 years old to fight Trump every day until the election and the orange menace would suffer a heart attack trying to keep up.

        This is insane … it’s almost as if the powers that be want Trump to win and the only way they can ensure that is to put him up against an 80 year old competitor because it is the only candidate he could possibly beat.

        • btaf45@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position.

          It’s not up to the DNC to “allow” candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters. They could theoretically alter the Dem party charter, but doing so this close to an election would likely not stand up in courts. The only possible way to get a replacement candidate cough Gavin Newsom cough would be for Biden to formally ask his delegates not to select him. And since Harris would be the automatic replacement she would likely have to agree to allow someone else.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            It’s not up to the DNC to “allow” candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters.

            The DNC argued in court that they could ignore their bylaws and put their thumb on the scale as much as they wanted. Guess that only applies when they’re fucking over progressives.

            • btaf45@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              Nope. A lawyer argued in court that they could legally change the party charter, in to win a court case. Which they theoretically could, but if they tried to alter the charter this close to the election it would be overturned in court for a great many reasons.

              Thinking that “DNC” small group of caretakers can choose anyone they want shows that you have a profound lack of understanding of how things actually work. Legally, control of the DNC lies in the hands of the newly elected delegates. The small caretaker group does not have the power to purge the much bigger general membership of already elected delegates. If they tried to, every single DNC delegate elected this year could sue the caretakers and would very easily win that lawsuit. Furthermore, the party charter bounds the delegates to Biden on the first ballot. Biden will have to be convinced to formally release them before they could legally vote for anybody else.

              The reason why you have a profound misunderstanding of how things actually work is because you were subjected to an onslaught of Kremlin propaganda in 2016 without knowing the source. And that propaganda gave you a dunning-kruger effect of vastly overestimating your knowledge of how the political parties actually work.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Centrists gaslight when they know they’re wrong.

                I’ve read the transcripts. They argued that the charter was discretionary.

                • btaf45@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  A) I voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020.

                  B) This article explains how things really work and how the elected delegates are legally binded to Biden on the first ballot and that it would be illegal for anybody in the executive committee or anybody besides Job Biden to release the delegates.

                  https://apnews.com/article/biden-replacement-democratic-ballot-dnc-rules-7aa836b0ae642a68eec86cc0bebd3772

                  I’ve read the transcripts. They argued that the charter was discretionary.

                  You misread the transcripts and it gave you a dunning-kruger understanding. Even if the lawyer had said that it would still be completely incorrect.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    4 months ago

                    This article explains how things really work and how the elected delegates are legally binded to Biden on the first ballot and that it would be illegal for anybody in the executive committee or anybody besides Job Biden to release the delegates.

                    How utterly convenient from the party whose rules are discretionary when they want to fuck over progressives.

                    You misread the transcripts

                    Gaslight someone else. I read the transcripts correctly.

                    Even if the lawyer had said that it would still be completely incorrect.

                    Even if you provide a source, he said the opposite before a judge. Not under oath is bullshit.

    • Tylerdurdon@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      While I agree, it’s way too late in the game to change up now. There’s no strong candidate waiting in the wings. It’s not about willing, it’s about alternatives.

      • retrospectology@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        There doesn’t have to be a strong candidate, just anyone stronger than Biden who’s basically zombie-crawling across the floor.

        He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.

        • Blackbeard@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.

          Only if they can convince him to step aside and let someone else run. At this point the voters have selected 3,904 delegates who are contractually obligated to cast a vote for him at the Convention. If the delegates somehow simply ignored the primaries, they’d be quite literally ignoring the will of their voters and taking matters into their own hands. It’s alarming how many on the left (who presumably had a problem with the DNC’s treatment of Bernie in 2016) are cheering for the DNC to heavily influence the primary process again. I don’t necessarily disagree that something drastic needs to be negotiated, but the irony of this is really hard to ignore.

          • retrospectology@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            This is the way the DNC set their rules up, they’ve been ok using the system to kneecap progressives, I see no reason that they shouldn’t do that to Biden. I’m not precious about the DNC and I have no illusion that it’s democratic, so they just need to stop pretending they’re being held back by principles and just pull the levers they always pull to control the convention outcome.