What the fuck is this shit? Motherfucker, I lived through these elections, and this is some boomer revisionist bull shit.
Al Gore lost because he couldn’t differentiate himself from god-damned George W Bush. He was too centrist to encourage the left base to show up for him.
Kerry lost because he couldn’t articulate his better vision for America, and was too centrist to encourage the left base to show up for him.
Hillary lost because she didn’t even try to reach out to the left base. She was too centrist to beat Donald Fucking Trump.
Three ostensibly intelligent leaders who lost their elections to fucking morons because they thought that they didn’t need to try very hard to reach out to progressive voters.
Any one of them would have been a better President than what we got, but the fact that they all lost means they did something wrong. It isn’t the fault of the voters demanding better, it’s the fault of the party failing to meet the demand.
I think this election is a little different in that we have a known threat that is significantly worse than the alternative. It’s not an exaggeration to say that Trump is a threat to democracy and to anyone that doesn’t want to live under religious law as interpreted by the Republicans.
The other candidate is harm reduction presidentially personified. That is the best choice we actually have, and the consequences for disincentivizing left leaning or undecided voters is much worse than Bush, and that’s saying something.
Vote against Christ flavored dictatorship, and encourage others to do the same. And not some impossible 3rd party bullshit.
If either third party gets even 5% this election, they qualify for federal funding and could have a greater influence in the future. Third party votes are ESSENTIAL when the establishment wins any other way.
If they couldn’t get 5% in 2016, they aren’t getting 5%.
Note also that Perot got >5% in 1996, but that did nothing for third party politics. The Reform party doesn’t even have name recognition.
You want third parties to be viable? They need to start local and build a base from the ground up. They need to start having significant presence in state politics and legislatures, and we need to see them have a modest bloc of senators and representatives in Congress. Even if a third party did win the presidency, they’d be a complete lame duck with no Congressional support.
You should be asking yourself why third parties aren’t doing this, and instead wasting money on presidential elections and conventions. The sad truth is that we don’t have a third party because we have no serious third party contenders. None of them want to play the long game to actually win. They’d rather just grift donations.
Well ranted, and I don’t disagree but it’s simply the case that voters not showing up gave us the shitshow we now have. It would have been very different, and you can blame the candidates but the fact is none of them are Jesus or Batman or whothefuckever is going to be all things to everyone.
And, at this point, after 2016, i do not give a single fuck about it. Get to the polls vote Biden and bitch after we’ve saved this country. Everyone gets a full three-and-a-half years to promote whatever their answer is, and if they don’t get it done by then, or have any other useful purpose, time to shut up and get to saving us from Idiot Handmaid’s Dream Reich.
This tweet or whatever - It’s not an academic treatise. It’s making the point that we can’t sit back again and let cheating fascist billionaire sycophants run away with it again. LIKE WE DID. Didn’t like Al Gore? Don’t care. Kerry too “stiff” for you? Shut the fuck up, we’re fighting goddamned war criminals. Hilary too - whatever - for you? Well no shit, me too but i’m voting for her anyway.
Right, and you and I are in complete agreement. I agree with the urgency and the overall goal. The only thing I don’t like about this tweet is that it blames the voters. It’s like the people who blame consumers for shopping at Walmart, driving small local businesses into bankruptcy. Or, you could go back to the classic fable of the scorpion and the frog.
People need to be motivated to vote. For me, voting against Trump is reason enough to show up. For other people, that isn’t enough. And if you lived through Trump’s presidency, and that wasn’t enough to motivate you to show up to vote, this tweet isn’t going to be any more persuasive.
The problem is not that the voters suck. The problem is that most people cannot see the world through the eyes of another person. Most people, the vast majority, are not dialed into politics. Most people are annoyed at politics. They don’t see a correlation between the people in charge and their personal quality of life.
Are they wrong? Ignorant? Out of touch? Apathetic? Maybe all of the above. But that’s who they are. You have to meet voters where they are. And if the voters aren’t showing up for you, then that isn’t their fault, it’s yours. The leaders must lead, or they aren’t worth voting for.
I desperately want Biden to win. I do not want to live in Trump’s America again. But if we have another 4 years of Trump, it’s because Biden and the Democrats are bad at their jobs. If you blame the voters, you may as well blame the tides for rising or the wind for blowing.
I voted for Nader, but only because Gore won my home state and I was still naive enough to think the DNC would get the message. I voted for Kerry and Hillary, but I didn’t expect either of them to win.
The problem is not that the voters suck. The problem is that most people cannot see the world through the eyes of another person. . . .
Are they wrong? Ignorant? Out of touch? Apathetic? Maybe all of the above. But that’s who they are.
Mmmmi dunno that sounds helluva lot like ‘voters suck’.
I mean the DNC is shit at almost everything (most importantly social media and messaging). But, it’d be so great if we didn’t have to hand-feed every single goddamned person who’s choices are to be helped or be hurt by their own vote.
So, voters suck but - we didn’t fool them enough? Or- didn’t, what, speak to them with a candidate of a different demographic makeup? Voters not sucking isn’t a fair request?
There are things that should be, and there are things that are. You can try to make the things that should be, but you must start with the things that are.
We can make voters better with education. We can encourage engagement, and oppose disenfranchisement, and pass legislation to promote participation, but none of that will change the fact that right now the voters suck. It is reasonable to work towards change, but it is unreasonable to expect them to change immediately and without effort. And while they suck, candidates and parties must work with the voters that are, instead of complaining about the voters that should be.
I mean, it’s true that the left base didn’t completely show up for him. Enough of them showed up that he won the popular vote and the electoral college, but if the vigorous activist left that was focused on WTO and GATT and other non electoral issues had been on the ground in the same way that Roger Stone’s machine was, they might have been able to stop Bush from stealing the election, and we might have had action on climate change back before it was too late, no global war on terror affecting hundreds of thousands of lives, no ISIS, no 2008 financial crash, and we might not have had all the failures to take US intelligence’s warnings seriously, that led to 9/11. Plus God knows what else actual forward progress.
Reframing “the US news media is so corrupted by propaganda that the average viewer can’t determine who is better between Gore and Bush, by a large enough margin to overcome a pretty blatant coup” as being all Gore’s fault somehow, is the most Lemmy-fake-leftist thing I’ve seen today, and I’ve seen someone praise the USSR’s justice system and someone else say that Biden shut down Trump’s insulin price cap.
“Too centrist”
Get the fuck out of here
You’re right about Hillary though, that part is true
Man, I lived through it. Don’t piss on my leg and call it rain. I followed Gore’s campaign. I watched his debates. The man had splinters in his ass from riding fences. He picked Joe Lieberman as his running mate to prove how centrist he was.
Compared to modern Democrats, he’s basically a communist, but 2000 was a heady time for progressives. We thought Bill Clinton was just the beginning, a transitional precursor to a new era of balanced budgets and human rights for all. But it was not to be.
What the fuck is this shit? Motherfucker, I lived through these elections, and this is some boomer revisionist bull shit.
Al Gore lost because he couldn’t differentiate himself from god-damned George W Bush. He was too centrist to encourage the left base to show up for him.
Kerry lost because he couldn’t articulate his better vision for America, and was too centrist to encourage the left base to show up for him.
Hillary lost because she didn’t even try to reach out to the left base. She was too centrist to beat Donald Fucking Trump.
Three ostensibly intelligent leaders who lost their elections to fucking morons because they thought that they didn’t need to try very hard to reach out to progressive voters.
Any one of them would have been a better President than what we got, but the fact that they all lost means they did something wrong. It isn’t the fault of the voters demanding better, it’s the fault of the party failing to meet the demand.
I think this election is a little different in that we have a known threat that is significantly worse than the alternative. It’s not an exaggeration to say that Trump is a threat to democracy and to anyone that doesn’t want to live under religious law as interpreted by the Republicans.
The other candidate is harm reduction presidentially personified. That is the best choice we actually have, and the consequences for disincentivizing left leaning or undecided voters is much worse than Bush, and that’s saying something.
Vote against Christ flavored dictatorship, and encourage others to do the same. And not some impossible 3rd party bullshit.
If either third party gets even 5% this election, they qualify for federal funding and could have a greater influence in the future. Third party votes are ESSENTIAL when the establishment wins any other way.
If they couldn’t get 5% in 2016, they aren’t getting 5%.
Note also that Perot got >5% in 1996, but that did nothing for third party politics. The Reform party doesn’t even have name recognition.
You want third parties to be viable? They need to start local and build a base from the ground up. They need to start having significant presence in state politics and legislatures, and we need to see them have a modest bloc of senators and representatives in Congress. Even if a third party did win the presidency, they’d be a complete lame duck with no Congressional support.
You should be asking yourself why third parties aren’t doing this, and instead wasting money on presidential elections and conventions. The sad truth is that we don’t have a third party because we have no serious third party contenders. None of them want to play the long game to actually win. They’d rather just grift donations.
Well ranted, and I don’t disagree but it’s simply the case that voters not showing up gave us the shitshow we now have. It would have been very different, and you can blame the candidates but the fact is none of them are Jesus or Batman or whothefuckever is going to be all things to everyone.
And, at this point, after 2016, i do not give a single fuck about it. Get to the polls vote Biden and bitch after we’ve saved this country. Everyone gets a full three-and-a-half years to promote whatever their answer is, and if they don’t get it done by then, or have any other useful purpose, time to shut up and get to saving us from Idiot Handmaid’s Dream Reich.
This tweet or whatever - It’s not an academic treatise. It’s making the point that we can’t sit back again and let cheating fascist billionaire sycophants run away with it again. LIKE WE DID. Didn’t like Al Gore? Don’t care. Kerry too “stiff” for you? Shut the fuck up, we’re fighting goddamned war criminals. Hilary too - whatever - for you? Well no shit, me too but i’m voting for her anyway.
Be precious later. WE DO NOT HAVE TIME RIGHT NOW.
Right, and you and I are in complete agreement. I agree with the urgency and the overall goal. The only thing I don’t like about this tweet is that it blames the voters. It’s like the people who blame consumers for shopping at Walmart, driving small local businesses into bankruptcy. Or, you could go back to the classic fable of the scorpion and the frog.
People need to be motivated to vote. For me, voting against Trump is reason enough to show up. For other people, that isn’t enough. And if you lived through Trump’s presidency, and that wasn’t enough to motivate you to show up to vote, this tweet isn’t going to be any more persuasive.
The problem is not that the voters suck. The problem is that most people cannot see the world through the eyes of another person. Most people, the vast majority, are not dialed into politics. Most people are annoyed at politics. They don’t see a correlation between the people in charge and their personal quality of life.
Are they wrong? Ignorant? Out of touch? Apathetic? Maybe all of the above. But that’s who they are. You have to meet voters where they are. And if the voters aren’t showing up for you, then that isn’t their fault, it’s yours. The leaders must lead, or they aren’t worth voting for.
I desperately want Biden to win. I do not want to live in Trump’s America again. But if we have another 4 years of Trump, it’s because Biden and the Democrats are bad at their jobs. If you blame the voters, you may as well blame the tides for rising or the wind for blowing.
I voted for Nader, but only because Gore won my home state and I was still naive enough to think the DNC would get the message. I voted for Kerry and Hillary, but I didn’t expect either of them to win.
Mmmmi dunno that sounds helluva lot like ‘voters suck’.
I mean the DNC is shit at almost everything (most importantly social media and messaging). But, it’d be so great if we didn’t have to hand-feed every single goddamned person who’s choices are to be helped or be hurt by their own vote.
Voters suck. Voters always suck. That’s part of the game. It’s like complaining about how high the basketball hoop is.
So, voters suck but - we didn’t fool them enough? Or- didn’t, what, speak to them with a candidate of a different demographic makeup? Voters not sucking isn’t a fair request?
There are things that should be, and there are things that are. You can try to make the things that should be, but you must start with the things that are.
We can make voters better with education. We can encourage engagement, and oppose disenfranchisement, and pass legislation to promote participation, but none of that will change the fact that right now the voters suck. It is reasonable to work towards change, but it is unreasonable to expect them to change immediately and without effort. And while they suck, candidates and parties must work with the voters that are, instead of complaining about the voters that should be.
I am fascinated to wonder who is upvoting this.
I mean, it’s true that the left base didn’t completely show up for him. Enough of them showed up that he won the popular vote and the electoral college, but if the vigorous activist left that was focused on WTO and GATT and other non electoral issues had been on the ground in the same way that Roger Stone’s machine was, they might have been able to stop Bush from stealing the election, and we might have had action on climate change back before it was too late, no global war on terror affecting hundreds of thousands of lives, no ISIS, no 2008 financial crash, and we might not have had all the failures to take US intelligence’s warnings seriously, that led to 9/11. Plus God knows what else actual forward progress.
Reframing “the US news media is so corrupted by propaganda that the average viewer can’t determine who is better between Gore and Bush, by a large enough margin to overcome a pretty blatant coup” as being all Gore’s fault somehow, is the most Lemmy-fake-leftist thing I’ve seen today, and I’ve seen someone praise the USSR’s justice system and someone else say that Biden shut down Trump’s insulin price cap.
“Too centrist”
Get the fuck out of here
You’re right about Hillary though, that part is true
Man, I lived through it. Don’t piss on my leg and call it rain. I followed Gore’s campaign. I watched his debates. The man had splinters in his ass from riding fences. He picked Joe Lieberman as his running mate to prove how centrist he was.
Compared to modern Democrats, he’s basically a communist, but 2000 was a heady time for progressives. We thought Bill Clinton was just the beginning, a transitional precursor to a new era of balanced budgets and human rights for all. But it was not to be.