Yeah… I can’t tell the difference anymore between conservative idiots and actual real tankies. That’s how close many of their talking points have gotten… I guess if one thing has been consistent throughout modern history, it’s that political groups on the left will always sabotage their own success with infighting on petty minutiae and making perfect the enemy of good. Yes, I know the Democrats aren’t “on the left” etc. etc. etc… I’ve made my point. We’re always our own worst enemy.
That’s simply NOT true. When the Republicans are bulldozed out of the way, Democrats go full speed ahead. Look at California. Newsom has gone absolute gangbusters with the GOP helpless in his path. We’re a bullet train of progress here!
Note: So to briefly pause here: I’m not exactly sure what happened, but I may have gotten a little carried away with this comment, it just kind of wrote itself and I couldn’t stop. I’m not even sure how much it pertains to your comment lol sorry. It’s long, so I wouldn’t fault anyone for skipping the rest. That said, I do think it makes some important, albeit possibly already well known points.
What did I say that’s not true? There is a long and storied history of leftists failing to accomplish meaningful change on a large scale due to petty infighting (for example, New Jersey exists) and self-imposed purity tests…
My comment assumes that the one I’m replying to is sincere and arguing in good faith. This is the internet, so you never know. Either way, this comment isn’t just for him, it’s for anyone who may see this thread and are curious about whether or not Democrats are progressive or vice-versa. So who knows, maybe someone else will read this and learn something new lol you never know…
My initial thought was that you seem to be making the mistake of conflating “progressive” with “democrat”. Are there progressives that caucus with the Democratic party? Sure (though begrudgingly). And why do you think they do that, rather than starting a third party of their own? After all, these neo-libs are just as bad as conservatives in their minds. Why do you think that progressive politicians in the US choose to caucus with the 'dem like 98% of the time? And leftists just cannot help themselves. We have some compulsion to zero-in on that often arbitrary 2% difference, Ultimate gatekeeping. Rather than celebrating the 98% of views we agree on, it is decided that cooperation is impossible.
It wasn’t always just Bernie out there on a limb; Some of us are old enough to remember people like Dennis Kucinich (and his disproportionately hot and cool wife lol), Mike Gravel, and last, but absolutely not least: Howard Dean, a "progressive-adjacent Democrat who was set to potentially win the nomination. And I can hear it already/again: “he’s not a true progressive because xyz, so he doesn’t count as a one!”
In all seriousness I truly believe Howard Dean’s career was deliberately assassinated because at the time, he was running the DNC like a well-oiled machine— his ‘fifty-state strategy’ was showing very real results. The GOP saw a future where they’re fighting for their lives in just about every state, knowing full well that they have no actual policy to run on. Republicans were threatened by this already, and the thought of him becoming President absolutely terrified them. So they assassinated his career for the dumbest reason ever (with the media and center-left complicit, of course),
What we need are more progressive politicians who are willing to actively caucus with the Democratic party. Once you get a large enough contingent, they will begin having actual power in the party’s policies.
So to get to my original main point before this comment transformed into something entirely different:
Given we must accept reality as it is, and given that that the reality is that we only have two parties is this country, we really have no choice:
a lukewarm neo-liberal party that has had no real choice but to follow the Overton Window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) further and further right or face extinction and ultimately cede power to the other party. Have you see what the “opposition party” looks like in places like Russia, and or,
literal racist, bigoted, homophobic, transphobic, fascists (their dumbasses don’t need to know the definition of something to be it) who are working tirelessly to take away basic rights
I am aware of Israel/Palestine, and I am 100% against Netanyahu’s campaign of genocide. Which is why voting for Donald Trump, who wants to give Netanyahu carte blanche (literally told him to “get it done faster” in contrast to everyone else in the world telling him to chill the fuck out).
If you give a single shit about the plea of the Palestinian people, and haven’t just latched onto a cause for attention or whatever, then you would understand why you need to vote for Joe Biden.
I must emphasize, THIS IS HOW THE SITUATION IS AT THIS MOMENT. That is, until young progressives recognize that perfect is the enemy of the good, and that they are able to collectively change the ethos and platform of the Democratic party. And that’s how you get a progressive party in a two party system. Problem is, young people don’t vote.
Again, apologies for the crazy long comment, this wasn’t planned. I hope at least someone reads it. Cheers!
I’m gonna break down my response simply: I’m a Democrat who voted for Bernie in the primaries and Clinton/Biden in the general. Never sacrifice the good for unreachable perfection.
Let me break this down for the simple minded:
Biden proposes $50k in student debt forgiveness.
Republicans fight him to make it $0.
Supreme Court sides with Republicans.
They force Biden to make it $10k just so it will pass.
“Biden pulled a Lucy on his voters!”
Yeah… I can’t tell the difference anymore between conservative idiots and actual real tankies. That’s how close many of their talking points have gotten… I guess if one thing has been consistent throughout modern history, it’s that political groups on the left will always sabotage their own success with infighting on petty minutiae and making perfect the enemy of good. Yes, I know the Democrats aren’t “on the left” etc. etc. etc… I’ve made my point. We’re always our own worst enemy.
That’s simply NOT true. When the Republicans are bulldozed out of the way, Democrats go full speed ahead. Look at California. Newsom has gone absolute gangbusters with the GOP helpless in his path. We’re a bullet train of progress here!
Note: So to briefly pause here: I’m not exactly sure what happened, but I may have gotten a little carried away with this comment, it just kind of wrote itself and I couldn’t stop. I’m not even sure how much it pertains to your comment lol sorry. It’s long, so I wouldn’t fault anyone for skipping the rest. That said, I do think it makes some important, albeit possibly already well known points.
What did I say that’s not true? There is a long and storied history of leftists failing to accomplish meaningful change on a large scale due to petty infighting (for example, New Jersey exists) and self-imposed purity tests…
My comment assumes that the one I’m replying to is sincere and arguing in good faith. This is the internet, so you never know. Either way, this comment isn’t just for him, it’s for anyone who may see this thread and are curious about whether or not Democrats are progressive or vice-versa. So who knows, maybe someone else will read this and learn something new lol you never know…
My initial thought was that you seem to be making the mistake of conflating “progressive” with “democrat”. Are there progressives that caucus with the Democratic party? Sure (though begrudgingly). And why do you think they do that, rather than starting a third party of their own? After all, these neo-libs are just as bad as conservatives in their minds. Why do you think that progressive politicians in the US choose to caucus with the 'dem like 98% of the time? And leftists just cannot help themselves. We have some compulsion to zero-in on that often arbitrary 2% difference, Ultimate gatekeeping. Rather than celebrating the 98% of views we agree on, it is decided that cooperation is impossible.
It wasn’t always just Bernie out there on a limb; Some of us are old enough to remember people like Dennis Kucinich (and his disproportionately hot and cool wife lol), Mike Gravel, and last, but absolutely not least: Howard Dean, a "progressive-adjacent Democrat who was set to potentially win the nomination. And I can hear it already/again: “he’s not a true progressive because xyz, so he doesn’t count as a one!”
In all seriousness I truly believe Howard Dean’s career was deliberately assassinated because at the time, he was running the DNC like a well-oiled machine— his ‘fifty-state strategy’ was showing very real results. The GOP saw a future where they’re fighting for their lives in just about every state, knowing full well that they have no actual policy to run on. Republicans were threatened by this already, and the thought of him becoming President absolutely terrified them. So they assassinated his career for the dumbest reason ever (with the media and center-left complicit, of course),
What we need are more progressive politicians who are willing to actively caucus with the Democratic party. Once you get a large enough contingent, they will begin having actual power in the party’s policies.
So to get to my original main point before this comment transformed into something entirely different:
Given we must accept reality as it is, and given that that the reality is that we only have two parties is this country, we really have no choice:
a lukewarm neo-liberal party that has had no real choice but to follow the Overton Window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) further and further right or face extinction and ultimately cede power to the other party. Have you see what the “opposition party” looks like in places like Russia, and or,
literal racist, bigoted, homophobic, transphobic, fascists (their dumbasses don’t need to know the definition of something to be it) who are working tirelessly to take away basic rights
I am aware of Israel/Palestine, and I am 100% against Netanyahu’s campaign of genocide. Which is why voting for Donald Trump, who wants to give Netanyahu carte blanche (literally told him to “get it done faster” in contrast to everyone else in the world telling him to chill the fuck out).
If you give a single shit about the plea of the Palestinian people, and haven’t just latched onto a cause for attention or whatever, then you would understand why you need to vote for Joe Biden.
The reality of political party dynamics is incredibly complex and nuanced. The Democratic party in particular is so diverse not just of ethnicity, but of beliefs, opinions, etc. I mean look at this, I think the data speaks for itself: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/09/u-s-congress-continues-to-grow-in-racial-ethnic-diversity/
Here is my main point (I think):
I must emphasize, THIS IS HOW THE SITUATION IS AT THIS MOMENT. That is, until young progressives recognize that perfect is the enemy of the good, and that they are able to collectively change the ethos and platform of the Democratic party. And that’s how you get a progressive party in a two party system. Problem is, young people don’t vote.
Again, apologies for the crazy long comment, this wasn’t planned. I hope at least someone reads it. Cheers!
I’m gonna break down my response simply: I’m a Democrat who voted for Bernie in the primaries and Clinton/Biden in the general. Never sacrifice the good for unreachable perfection.