Ukraine on Wednesday lowered the military conscription age from 27 to 25 in an effort to replenish its depleted ranks after more than two years of war following Russia’s full-scale invasion.
The new mobilization law came into force a day after Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy signed it. Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed it last year.
It was not immediately clear why Zelenskyy took so long to sign the measure into law. He didn’t make any public comment about it, and officials did not say how many new soldiers the country expected to gain or for which units.
Conscription has been a sensitive matter in Ukraine for many months amid a growing shortage of infantry on top of a severe ammunition shortfall that has handed Russia the battlefield initiative. Russia’s own problems with manpower and planning have so far prevented it from taking full advantage of its edge.
If you’re angry at Ukraine, you aren’t looking or thinking deeply enough. This is only happening because Russia is trying to conquer Ukraine with their own conscripted soldiers. All of this ends when Russia stops their invasion.
You want the deaths to stop? Tell Putin to fuck himself with a rusty cactus and withdraw.
Who’s angry at Ukraine?
Putin is, for some very bizarre reason of his own. That’s about it I think.
Remember when Wagner Group accidentally found out they had wide open roads all the way to Moscow from Ukraine? That’s what Ukraine is to Putin. Along with natural gas and some other economic factors. None of it inscrutable.
While Putin is undoubtedly an aggressor and the reason this entire thing is happening (and it would be amazing if someone finally stopped him), Zelensky does have power over the situation.
It’s just that he’s not gonna give anything up as well, so it ends up in a stalemate. One side tries to prove Russia’s a power to be reckoned with, the other - that you can’t just attack a country while everyone is okay with it (something that has been then dispoven in many, many cases, unfortunately, so it’s not as world-tilting as some might think)
Out of two evils, Ukraine is certainly the more righteous. But there’s a line after which you’re fine fighting with a madman who’ll be fine evaporating your entire population over something you might rather give up (and that’s not the existence of Ukraine, mind you) to save countless lives.
Zelensky has been offered to start peace talks by just about everyone in the world, not just Russian side itself, yet there he is, sending more and more men to war, men who don’t want to be there, who are not ready to sacrifice their lives in this conflict, who value themselves more than some plots of land. When you have to force people to die in order to prove your point, maybe it’s time to think again.
And of course, Putin does the same thing over a much stupider cause; this is by no means a pro-Putin or even pro-Russian argument. This is an argument for life, for the people who die in the trenches, while world leaders can’t decide who’s more right. Fuck it, stop the war, and do the talking.
P.S. Feel free to downvote if you like, but I’d be happy to see valid arguments, not just arrows down.
If you were the one who has “power over the situation”, please tell us: Which parts of your country would you be willing to hand over to Putin, when he comes asking for them?
Donbass, most likely.
That’s what Putin needs the most and at the same time the region with worst sentiment towards Ukraine, even among ethnic Ukrainians (not to mention ethnic Russians comprising ~40% of the population). There can be a lot of speculations about the true sentiment of the locals (to many of whom I talked and they mostly just don’t care or are pro-Russian, but barely ever actively pro-Ukraine), but this is the place that fought Ukraine off long before the massive Russian invasion.
Now, Donbass is a source of quite a few natural resources, which is one of the key reasons Ukraine even cares about it despite the popular local sentiment (besides territorial integrity, that is), but in order to return facilities under control, it’s not enough to stop the war and officially declare it being Ukraine, it also requires the state to keep fighting local forces who are still not happy about the perspective - something that current Ukraine is questionably capable of.
So, Donbass it is. Russia happy, Ukraine free of a lot of headache, people don’t die, yay.
Feel free to downvote if you like, but I’d be happy to see valid arguments, not just arrows down.
- Should Zelensky start talking about giving up territory he’d go the way of Yanukovych. Polls show that Ukrainians would keep fighting even if all support from the west were to dry up.
- This is not about land. It’s about the people living here and the survival of Ukraine as a nation. Which btw includes Russian native speakers, Zelensky himself is one.
- Moscow’s version of peace is “you roll over and stop defending yourself so I have an easier time kicking you”. Making “peace” with Russia only means 10000 Buchas. Western pacifists falling for that line are some of the most fatuous people I’ve ever witnessed, to the point that I don’t make a distinction between Russian asset and useful idiot, any more.
Interesring that it’s already so high, don’t most countries have conscription at 18?
Few countries have demographics so fucked up as Ukraine. It’s the same “WWII generation can’t have kids on account of being dead” and “everyone got scared of their future prospects when the USSR fell and people are too well-educated to bring kids into an uncertain future” double-dip that also Russia suffers from, though Ukraine has an even lower fertility rate, 1.16 vs. 1.49, and overall that wasp waist is way more pronounced, here’s Russia. Ukraine is also losing plenty of working population to the EU, has way before people began to flee the invasion. The drain is on well-educated people, people coming to the EU as seasonal workers in agriculture etc. rather funnel money back to Ukraine.
The situation would be a catastrophe of Korean proportions if Ukrainians managed to be as in denial about the situation as Koreans are, but they’re not. It’s still severely fucked, though1.
The size of the cohorts that now got added is in comparison tiny, as you see, and I’d be surprised if they’re sending them to the front. It’s going to be training in all that newfangled western stuff and stand-off warfare for them, not the trenches.
1 I can’t help but ask: It is said that one of the main cultural differences between Germany and Austria is that in Germany, bad situations are serious but not hopeless while in Austria they’re hopeless, but not serious. What’s Ukraine’s take?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Conscription has been a sensitive matter in Ukraine for many months amid a growing shortage of infantry on top of a severe ammunition shortfall that has handed Russia the battlefield initiative.
Some Ukrainians worry that taking young adults out of the workforce will backfire by further harming the war-ravaged economy, but the problem reportedly has become acute as Kyiv girds for an expected summer offensive by the Kremlin’s forces.
Russia’s population is more than three times as large as Ukraine’s, and President Vladimir Putin has shown a willingness to force men to the front if not enough volunteer.
The need for a broad mobilization to beef up the number of Ukrainian troops reportedly was one of the areas of disagreement between Zelenskyy and Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, the popular commander in chief of Ukraine’s armed forces whom the president replaced in February.
Zelenskyy said Wednesday that Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city, “sees daily humiliation and pain” from unrelenting Russian aerial attacks.
Russian attacks all across the country are “wreaking havoc,” Zelenskyy wrote on X, formerly Twitter, in an appeal for Ukraine’s Western partners to supply more air defense systems.
The original article contains 619 words, the summary contains 187 words. Saved 70%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
What happened to ‘war over in 2 weeks?’ The worlds largest military and all of Europe providing weapons and its gone nowhere, except into the pockets of war hawks. At this point it should be considered a long con
The quick war narrative was originally coined by Russian media, though. Not Ukrainian one, and neither of the governments said that.
Go all in and lower it to 16
I suppose you would prefer Kyiv to be a provincial capital of Russia?
Not OP, but I, for one, would rather see that than a bunch of kids dying in the trenches. But better yet, secure the current border, start ceasefire and do the talking. Ukraine did gain leverage enough not to give up Kyiv or its statehood, something that was seen even by the way Russia approached peace talk suggestions over the months of the war.
Maybe they can draft those brave Americans and Europeans to come fight for them.
There have been volunteers from those places, so this isn’t the dunk you think it is
Wow a few volunteers. Meanwhile tens of thousands of Ukrainian men are forcibly thrown into the meat grinder while people wave on enthusiastically with their flag sending them into their deaths.
Ever been blocked just for being unpleasant and boring?
While taking no sides, I must say this is a personal attack.
If someone is bothering you and you plan on blocking them, just block them and go about your day.
No amount of righteousness is enough to ignore basic politeness, or else all discussions will turn into trash.
Lots of discussions aren’t trash at all! Some of them start that way, and end in an object lesson. Nothing gets wasted round here.
No just for speaking the truth.
When NATO had to attack Serbia to stop the ethnic cleansing, how many soldiers did Ukraine send to help NATO?
There is an ethnic cleansing going on in Palestine right now where is NATO at?
Oh right supplying the bombs to do it.
NATO is a defense treaty organization, not offensive. This isn’t complicated. Member nations can do what they they see fit as needed but only unprovoked attacks on members are the real purview.
A kill ratio of up to 1:10 is a meat grinder, yes, but not on the Ukrainian side.
A 1:2 or 1:3 ratio is very plausible. 1:10 is just consuming the kool aid from our side. Not surprising since we’re doing pretty hot on the propaganda as well:
Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia’s full-scale invasion
US officials in August put the number of Ukrainian soldiers killed at 70,000 and as many as 120,000 injured.
I’m incredibly disappointed in you. I thought you were better than this. You wouldn’t say “maybe they can draft those brave leftists to protect Palestinians”, would you?
Russia and Israel are both trying to conduct genocide and conquer land, with different degrees of success. I expected you to be anti genocide no matter the situation. I’m disappointed to see it’s just “opposite of the US” for you.
I didn’t agree with most of your takes, but I thought you were principled and they at least made me think. Guess I was wrong.
Yes voluntarily. A draft is FORCED. This is not about wanting to defend your own country this is about being forced into the meat grinder.
Zelensky recently replaced his top army general that said they were in a stalemate and now they have a guy nicknamed “the butcher”.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy wanted to give his military a shakeup by appointing General Oleksandr Syrskyi as commander-in-chief: many of his troops reacted with despair.
“Syrskyi will kill us all,” said one soldier, who like others in this story spoke on condition of being granted anonymity.
That was highlighted by Syrskyi overseeing last year’s dogged nine-month defense of Bakhmut, where Ukrainian troops suffered high casualties against relentless “meat waves” of Russian attackers before having to abandon the eastern city. That earned him the gruesome nickname of “Butcher.”
Everyone who disagrees with this Tankie: Remember to vote for Biden so Ukraine and Palestine are both able to survive their respective genocides.
We’re busy using our tax dollars to equip them and keeping our troops where they won’t start a nuclear war.
Best I can do is make my avatar yellow and blue and post “SLAVA UKRAINI” from time to time.
We’re busy yanking our dicks to our lord and savior Donald Jesus Trump.
For all the Americans who want to send troops, I think they should sign up for the Ukrainian army. If they believe in the right so much, let them go fight the war.
While I support sending weapons, I do not support sending troops.
I’ve actually considered joining the foreign legion. The commander seems fucking sketchy and not very brilliant strategically, that unnecessary risks his men. It wouldn’t be a terrible idea to actually have nato commanders directing back line logistics and training.
I’ve met a bunch of Ukrainians online that just want the war done. They don’t care who wins. They’re seeing their family and friends die and they just want it to stop.
People seem to forget that this thing started because two oblasts didn’t want to be part of Ukraine anymore. Russia escalated it for sure, but it still started as a separatist movement inside Ukraine.
this thing started because two oblasts didn’t want to be part of Ukraine anymore.
Bullshit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People’s_Republic
There’s a luhansk one as well.
Russia backed those separatists. Russia escalated it, but there was a sizable portion of the population that wanted out of Ukraine. I have zero idea how they feel about the 2022 annexation.As even your Wikipedia article mentions, even though the east of Ukraine hasn’t always been in the same page politically, this separatist movement is fairly new and probably fueled by Russia since at least the 2010s and exploded after the Euromaidan protests .
You can see it by checking the Ukrainian Referendum of Independence of 1991.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum
Only 12-13% in those oblasts voted no, compared to the whopping 42% from Crimea, which is understandable because it was originally Russian territory ceded to the Ukranian SSR by Nikita Khrushchev as a gesture of goodwill (not that it justifies the 2014 annexation it suffered by Russia).
Even though the vote was about leaving the USSR, we can’t separate the Russian question completely from it, and it was an important issue during the referendum.
Those Russian speaking separatists got heavily influenced by Russian disinformation and propaganda for years in preparation of the invasion, and supported by the Russian armed forces, precisely to have this justification. This is like saying Putin got 88% in the election, so clearly that’s the will of the people. Assuming that authoritarian regimes lead by secret service agents play by the rules of democracy is dangerous.
Imo it’s remarkable how successful they are at spreading their twisted narratives, even in western countries.
Is there something valuable in that region? Seems like removing them from Ukraine would be a smart choice to get rid of them. Since Ukraine was prospering better than Russia, give them what they want
Russia is just helping those who want to leave leave yes that’s the ticket. The best way to do this is to try to decapitate the country’s leadership with a full scale invasion that includes devastating its infrastructure affecting millions of civilian lives.
Yes
I really thought about putting some type of disclaimer about how this was a response I expected.
I regret not putting that down.
The online discourse on this is so black and white it’s ridiculous.
There can be multiple reasons for things. Doesn’t mean that any side is some type of white Knight.War, with its life and death seriousness, doesn’t leave a lot of room for nuanced arguments. Those are for peacetime. For now it’s simply Russia is the aggressor, Ukraine the defender, and Ukraine represents western democracy in a part of the world that is known for corrupt oligarchs. We back Ukraine not just because it’s right, but sensible. it’s that simple imo.
Pretty sure they will care who wins when they get shipped off to Russian labor camps or sent to the front lines for whatever shit putin decides to invade next. I feel for their losses of loved ones but that’s a pretty dumb take.
Polls show that Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to fight Russia off.
You’reYour “bunch of Ukrainians online” was probably Kremlin shills.
