• TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    It shouldn’t be this difficult for an actual leader to stop politicking and do the right thing. This is like Bill Clinton ignoring the Rwandan genocide. Or Reagan collaborating with the Guatemalan genocide. Or Nixon ignoring the Bengali genocide and directing the Cambodian genocide that enabled the Khmer Rouge genocide. On second thought, Biden’s an exemplary United States President. /s

    • lennybird@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Whenever you give me a data-driven solution to the problem I proposed with the 7.6 million Jewish Americans who are sympathetic to Israel and Biden definitely needing their vote more so than the 160,000 Palestinian Americans, you let me know.

          • goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org
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            8 months ago

            There wasn’t a point. It was a denial that anything need to be done because the data says electoral politics are more important than stopping another genocide.

            They also seem to think all jews in the United States are pro Isreal based on saying 8 million would be angered enough to vote republican if anything happened to Israel, which is also ridiculous to say while asking for data driven anything.

            • lennybird@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Even if Biden withdrew all aid to Israel, the genocide persists. So, now what?

              They also seem to think all jews in the United States are pro Isreal based on saying 8 million would be angered enough to vote republican i

              There you go again with the straw-man fallacies. What’s heavily ironic about this is I’ve heard ad nauseum about the 160,000 Palestinian Americans and what they might do should Biden not change his position. I already gave the PEW data indicating a sizable chunk of those 8 million are indeed supportive of Israel and no matter how you cut it, there’s a greater risk to Biden’s reelection.

              But moreover think about just how short-sighted your thinking is here. Even if Biden stops the aid now and it backfires for Biden’s reelection, then Trump gets in — where will you be? Will you be celebrating and patting yourself on the back because Biden shot himself in the foot while Trump steamrolls Palestinians?

              I think you just might.

                • lennybird@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  There ya go with those strawman fallacies, again!

                  Such a strong fighter for these 8 months. Yet don’t seem to care whatsoever about the consequences for Palestinians (or Ukrainians for that matter) for the next 4 years. How curious.

                  • goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org
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                    8 months ago

                    I thought you hated strawman arguments?

                    And now we’re too the any criticism of Biden means they’re for Trump. Way to get 2 in one there.

                    Plus still haven’t seen your source on how the entire Jewish population in the country are okay with Israels handling of Palestinians and the whole genocide they’re doing.

          • lennybird@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            It’s intentional. Best guess is these are either wedge-driving trolls, or very young and naive sub-20-year-olds full of idealism but lacking a particular degree of foresight.

              • lennybird@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                If they dodge the arguments presented and double-down with bullshit accusations and shitty obvious strawman fallacies, then yes, absofuckinglutely.

      • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Sometimes doing the right thing is more important than an election. If LBJ had taken your advice, Civil Rights would never have happened in America.

        A brilliant political analyst, Johnson foresaw the consequences of his civil rights legislation on the day he signed it into law. He is said to have remarked: “We’ve lost the south for a generation.” historical data

        • lennybird@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Apples and oranges in my view; for Is there any law that Biden can sign right now?

          Is there anything Biden can do right now that won’t be immediately reversed by Trump and orders-of-magnitude worse?

          Hence why under these circumstances, in my opinion, following the polling data and ensuring election is paramount.

          In the meantime we should all be focused not on criticizing Biden but targeting the pro-Israeli voters and trying to sway them. If you change them, the polling changes, and so too will Biden’s position.

          And ultimately that’s exactly what we’ve seen over the last couple of months.

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            You’d sell your mother into slavery to get Biden elected, that much is obvious. You have no moral framework for any of your so-called “principles,” your only concern is winning. Which is precisely how we got to this point after the third-way Democrats compromised with neoliberalism by allowing corporate donations to dominate their party. Compromising your humanity by settling with the lesser evil is still evil.

            • lennybird@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Hahaha I’m sorry, what? Now you’re just going off the deep end.

              I’d rather ensure my mother doesn’t live with Trump as president for another 4 years. It’s not good for her blood pressure.

              Unfortunately you just seem far too short-sighted to comprehend the big picture, here. You’d rather manufacture purity tests for the Democrats even if that means holding the door open for literal evil. Classic pyrrhic victory.

              Lambast Democrats all you want. Yet Every Single progressive advancement we’ve had in this country has come through the Democratic party.

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                I’m not saying to not vote for Biden to prevent the fascism of Trump. I will. And I have to make peace with that, if I can. But I’m not gonna lie to myself and others to justify this administrations actions regarding Palestine. Genocide should never be condoned, even for poll numbers.

                • lennybird@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  I entirely sympathize with that and think this is a very grounded comment. From my view I feel Democrats are losing the information war and our ties to Israel are too deep to just uproot overnight without disastrous consequences.

                  I weigh the pros/cons of: Biden cutting all ties and aid overnight with Israel versus the risk to popularity and losing the election and handing the keys to Trump. Put another way: if this wasn’t election season and polls weren’t this tight, I think Biden would’ve dropped Israel much faster and absorbed the risk. (sort of like withdrawing from Afghanistan far away from an election).

                  It is imperative every one of us keep pushing against the Israeli narrative so we alter the polling in favor of walking away from Israel.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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        7 months ago

        with the 7.6 million Jewish Americans who are sympathetic to Israel

        This is false, they are split and it’s much fewer votes to be lost. Maybe none, maybe even some gained.