This came up in my health care forum.
Right now, you can legally detain someone medically when they are a danger to themselves or others for up to 72hrs. The details vary by state, but this is how we lock down individuals trying to suicide or someone mentally off the rails making threats of violence.
This variation on that law would also make opposition to Trump qualify.
Civil commitment can follow as with individuals who have profound mental illness and are not safe to be out in the world.
This is the loudest scream that democracy is dead short of hauling people out into the street and shooting them.
It’s important to note the police are currently the people who bring individuals in for the 72hr mental health holds.
Psychiatric hospitals are also allowed to lie to you. You can go in voluntarily, and be upgraded to “involuntary” with no recourse.
Mental health techs will lie - cause problems? Guess what, your notes now say that you are “paranoid” and “hear voices.” You’re “paranoid” because a tech beat the shit out of you two hours ago - you don’t hear voices, but you are “crazy” so obviously lying.
Check what rights institutionalized people have in your state. I can tell you where I live, there are none.
LOL, the stuff of nightmares.
Quite literally in my case.
PTSD from “psychiatric care” is pretty difficult to deal with (and understudied. fascinating how PTSD only garners you empathy and understanding if you’re a combat rep, despite the fact that most with PTSD do have it from sexual abuse and possibly inpatient experiences - suicide rates skyrocket after involuntary commitment, but why do any form of investigation into something that might hurt profits?)
If you’re afraid of wasps, you aren’t expected to go ask a wasp how to deal with it. If, however, you experience severe abuse at the hands of mental health professionals and you live in an area where mental health care = the police, getting any form of help is pretty difficult.
Especially when they consider your gender identity and sexuality as manifestations of mental illness/further evidence that they don’t need to look into the tech beating the shit out of you.
I have met and hung out with a staggering variety of monsters. so much so I might be doxxing myself if I really described the breadth. If you can think of a kind of monster that exists, I have probably met them. I might even have known one well.
I have never met anyone who can reach quite the degree of sadist or control freak as a psychiatrist. Psychopaths aren’t as willing to lie spontaneously and throw people away. future cult leaders aren’t as quick on the self justification trigger. I genuinely believe sydney gottlieb was one of the less malignant assholes that profession has ever produced.
which is a shame, because the pharmacology of the mind is something I’m deeply interested in. there’s cool fucking science there, and we will never see it done.
The power dynamic is the scary part. PTSD isn’t just trauma - it’s trauma with powerlessness and an invalidated narrative.
Saying “hey I need help, I’m struggling with not wanting to leave the house or be alive” - and then losing your rights. Being forced into a room which isn’t clean. The threat that they can medicate you if you annoy them to much (asking to speak to an advocate, asking to file a grievance).
It’s strange that suicidal ideation is considered enough to make you “crazy.” I don’t understand why the response to someone cogently explaining the reasons they want to die (and most of those reasons being fairly rational responses) = “this person is crazy and should be a ward of the state for the next couple days.”
They also get to present this as the only option - “oh, you want 988 to let people just die over the phone?” Well, the research indicates that suicide rates spike not just immediately after institutionalization - but the effects continues for YEARS LATER.
The charge nurse joked that even with the 72-hour hold, weekends didn’t count and they would be happy to keep me for five days if I didn’t shut up.
They also didn’t properly discharge me/provide paperwork. I lost my job because of this. I was already reluctant to seek out help (my mother was a serious Munchausen by proxy - she sent me to institutions as a child telling them I was violent/on drugs/etc - I was a straight edge teen that didn’t even look at porn because I was scared of what she would do.)
Instead of help, I got another set of memories to crush me at 4 in the morning. I got mistreated for being trans, which further contributes to the atmosphere of fear I live in. I lost my job, which is already a struggle because I need to save up to get out of here.
I’m sick of people suggesting therapy as the first response to anyone describing mental health struggles. I’ve met so few capable of anything more than providing the CBT worksheets that seem to be all they’re trained to do nowadays.
Psychiatry and psychology as fields ultimately seem more about the enforcement of social norms than about benefiting the patient.
This reads like low-key Scientology propaganda.
Only in that it’s critical of the field of psychology as it is on the ground? I’m not a Scientologist, and I don’t think the cans are a substitute for care.
The state I live in was under DOJ investigation for using the police/prisons as default responses to behavioral health care. Even the people I call to report my own experience of abuse or children I advocate for - they are all like, yeah, all of the facilities here are like this.
It’s not that psychology is fundamentally bad (although we need to excise Freud entirely) - it’s that in practice there’s very little accountability and a lot of abuse that is covered up due to differences in power. I was able to call and report the fact that I was physically assaulted - the man I saw drugged in a holding cell will probably never be able to express what happened to him a way that will ever be taken seriously or lead to meaningful action.
CBT is flat out ineffective for many people and conditions. It is a serious problem that the majority of practitioners are only taught CBT and will outright lie if you tell them you don’t want CBT.
I think it’s even worse than that. Some of us actually rely on psychiatry. Some of us for controlled medications no less. I can’t just decide to not partake in the system because I cannot function without psychiatric medications, but can with them. And so I’ve had to learn to play their games and play into what they think my mental illness is like.
And that’s before we get to the abuse. I’ve been gaslit by psychiatrists and I’ve had it easy. I know for certain that I will never voluntarily commit myself after the stories I’ve heard.
I can’t deal with it. my choices are street drugs, or just embracing being fucked up. no amount of nightmares or hallucinations is worth dealing with a psychiatrist. you can do a shit ton more towards fixing your shit without drugs than they tell you, if you figure your shit out. it’s rarely enough, often involving major changes and adaptations, and there’s basically no chance you’ll exist within normative society, but there’s more than nothing out here.
Interesting I’ve had the opposite experience. All the psychiatrists I’ve met, worked with, and been treated by have been kind and wonderful. The only bad experience I’ve had has been dealing with a cruel PhD psychologist, who I think just hates men because of something in her past and took it out on the people she had power over.
are you, by any chance, a straight cis white dude with some amount of class privilege, and possibly some professional qualifications? I ask, knowing the answer.
You’re speaking directly to me. I am a veteran with PTSD. It was from sexual assault and the accompanying involuntary mental health lock up after I went to the doctor to seek help with my sleep.
I was told I could not claim the sexual assault because I would have been kicked out for sleeping with someone that was married and for being gay (this was before they repealed don’t ask don’t tell)…… I would have been court martial and thrown out they said.
Lucky for me I’m an infantry marine with a combat tour so my PTSD gets assumed to be combat and I don’t have to explain much to anyone. But fuck, how am I supposed to go and talk this out with doctors that I don’t trust? I don’t trust the system at all. I was let down by low command (squad), middle command(battalion command), and high command (regimental command). I was then failed by the nurse (corpsman), PCP (battalion doctor), psych (some fuckface colonel), his nurse (another corpsman), and the facilities personnel (nurses, doctors, psychiatrists).
And to compound on all this, I was involuntarily locked up when I was 14(??) because my parents let me get so fucked up that I blacked out and they called cops saying they didn’t know what was wrong with me……. What was wrong was that I was 14 and handed booze and pills…… the fuck did they expect?!? Obviously both times I ended up getting released but that doesn’t remove the inhumanity of it all. The treatment as if you are “other” to them. Like a dog or some shit.
So I’ve had trauma from psych wards from adolescence and also my time in the marines.
Sorry for the rant. Just triggered so much inside me with your comment.
And keep in mind that this is the state of things prior to our current regime that runs on cruelty.
It’s important to note the police are currently the people who bring individuals in for the 72hr mental health holds.
I think it is also important to note that it appears many of these officers are not wearing Level IV plates daily, and plainclothes cops may not be wearing any vest at all.
It’s also important to note that they’re planning on introducing gun control for people considered to be mentally ill. They are going to declare every antifascist mentally ill, and use it to take their guns away.
They don’t need to introduce anything, involuntary commitment is already a question on form 4473 and something a NICS check would flag.
Of course, they would still need to physically retrieve any firearms they may have. Unless they planned on handing them over peacefully.
I’m sorry, I lost all my firearms in an unfortunate boating accident.
Which is why I roll my eyes everyone those Dems mentions “Gun Control”.
Armed Minorities are harder to oppress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry
This is literally CCP level stuff.
Donald Ewen Cameron’s operation was running from what is today known as the Allen Memorial Institute (AMI), part of the Royal Victoria Hospital, and not to be confused with the non-governmental organization based in Montreal, AMI-Québec Agir contre la maladie mentale.
Love how Donald Ewen Cameron gets exactly one sentence that doesn’t even describe anything he did, and is listed under the Canada section with zero mention of being funded by the CIA as part of MKULTRA (which also gets zero mention in the article).
For those who don’t know, Donald Ewen Cameron posed as a normal doctor in Canada and took patients who came in with minor symptoms like headaches or anxiety disorders and put them into months-long comas without their consent to run CIA mind control and drug experiments on, including LSD and electroshock treatments at 30-40 times normal levels. The full extent of his abuse will never be known due to the destruction of records (more details on this page), but many people were severely traumatized with long term effects including, “incontinence, amnesia, forgetting how to talk, forgetting their parents, and thinking their interrogators were their parents.” “Victims often suffered from retrograde amnesia for the rest of their lives and had to relearn most skills they had. Many were in a childlike state and even had to be potty-trained.”
After conducting these horrific, abusive “experiments” (torture) on innocent Canadians seeking medical help, with US government’s full knowledge and support, Cameron would go on to become president of several different organizations, including the American Psychiatric Association, the Canadian Psychiatric Association, and even the World Psychiatric Association.
This is literally USA level stuff.
Holy shit, what? Good god
I know all about MKULTRA, but I’ve never been aware of this or anything else that involved Canada.
Man this country is rotten to the core. The shit that the CIA did with LSD alone constitutes crimes against humanity.
What is wrong with people that they would rather live under the boot of dollar-store Hitler than in a tolerant society of people just getting on with life?
They want people to suffer.
Evil. The word you’re looking for is evil.
They believe the propaganda that others hate them or are trying to destroy their way of life, and that dollar-store Hitler is their champion fighting for them.
They believe that bullshit against all common sense and by very deliberately ignoring any kind of evidence. Fascists are always assholes first and the fascism just serves to rationalize their shitty behaviour.
That’s what I don’t get. Like, why can’t we just all get on with our lives, help those you have it worse than us, and work together on a better future for our children?
But no, there’s a bunch of narcissistic assholes amassing wealth and convincing the other wannabe narcissists that everyone is out to get them.
I have a small kid and have no clue how to explain to him what the fuck was going on in right now when he’s old enough to ask. I just don’t get it. It makes me sad, and helpless, and anxious, and I just don’t want to have anything to do with the rest of society. And I don’t even live in the USA but am solid upper middle class in Scandinavia.
Hello fellow Scandinavian
I share your worries, I truly think we’re going to have war at our doorsteps sooner or later, and I don’t really know what to do about it (beyond I guess, preparing mostly self-sufficient communities of like-minded individuals capable of self-defense, but yeah…)
It’s definitively scary
Lack of empathy. Fear that they are fed. Hate for different people. Sense of superiority over people who have even less than them. Total lack of responsibility. Religion.
My first thought when reading this is….
We’re mere weeks away from martial law.
My second thoughts was, if this is the distraction- what is the other hand doing?
A fair ask.
This is literally how the soviet union suppressed dissent in the 80s. Disagreement with the party was legally considered a sign of psychological issues. They did this to replace the gulags.
deleted by creator
Having a human labeled as internally broken has always been effective. Even on the small scale, society takes a step back, maybe, at most, pities, but the label utterly destroys all leadership capacity due to the seed of doubt it plants in everyone.
If you guys haven’t started rioting by now then I lack any empathy for you with what comes next.
Who wrote this fucked up bill? And isn’t Minnesota a blue state?
- Lucero
- ; Drazkowski
- ; Wesenberg
- ; Eichorn
- ; Gruenhagen
but, the bill doesn’t even make sense and uses “psychic” instead of “psychiatric”… so not even proof read….
it’s basically a troll bill, more important things to get upset about (unless you’re in minnesota, then you should petition to remove them)I noticed the “Psychic.” At first I thought that it was alluding to people like me who are lawyers but have a strategic mind and fairly accurately predict outcome with good data and information.
But then I immediately realized they’re just extremely dumb and dangerous. Might also have been trying to say psychotic/psychosis.
If it stays as written, then I would like them try to prove the existence of psychics.
It’s a troll as you say. But having watched the law for a long time and being in the law, it is highly likely that a group that is more competent will get a hold of this idea, draft a real version, and pump that legislation out to every state legislature.
We have that being homosexual is a crime still on the books in most places. We are only 40 years old from homosexuality being considered a mental illness. This sort of thing is absolutely on the table.
I don’t know how to start a riot
This statement sums up modern Western society.
BORTLES!
first: start a huge protest with flyers and stuff.
second: start breaking things.
???
nth: prison for inciting a riot.
(although, worth it)
Oh shit! Free mental healthcare.
Fuck Trump!
I’d like to talk about my mother when possible.
What makes you think it would be free?
Other countries will pay for it!
/s
Let’s see here, make this out to comptroller, and the amount is… well let’s just leave that blank for now.
I guess I’ll see some of you in the loony bin with me. We should play bingo or something.
They probably wouldn’t allow RISK, too “violent”.
I like Mancala, personally.
This is unhinged. I hope it doesn’t pass.
It won’t. Even if it did Walz would would veto it.
Every single elected Nazi will probably vote for it, but they don’t have a majority and they are super upset about it.
it’s legislative shitposting/meme magic. one of them gets an idea for the meme: adding “Trump Derangement Syndrome” as a mental illness to troll the libs. it provokes a reaction in us, because it’s 2025 and for all we know the damn thing might pass at the rate the fascists are consuming the state, and the Republicans’ base feeds off of our panic and grief, fueling their schadenfreude. Republican voters are the real trolls; these legislators are just their proxies.
basically, this is the meme magic formula that took 4chan from “ironic” Nazi trolls to an outright fascist resurgence across the West, that took Trump from a meme candidate to the Oval Office, that took the 51st State rhetoric from obvious hyperbole to deadly serious. it’s “just a joke” when you’re defending it, it’s “just trolling” when you’re pushing it through, and it’s “owning the libs” when you’re executing on it.
As long as you aren’t playing it down (I don’t think you are but not 100% sure) I’m with you. Historically, that’s how we got here.
Still, it needs to be called out, every step of the way. The more such “troll legislation” passes - possibly unseen - the worse things get.
Also, there’s no 3- or even more-D chess going on. MAGAGOP is just throwing shit at the wall, not too bothered if something doesn’t stick, but immediately ready to follow up if it does. So let’s make sure it doesn’t.
definitely not playing it down. the whole point of meme magic is that it shifts the Overton window so bills like these can actually pass. it’s a kind of “irony laundering.” they “troll” the Left, the Left raises alarm, the Right keks and calls us hysterical, the Center sees us as crying wolf and tunes us out. the Right pushes the “troll” legislation as far as they can because “it’s just a prank bro,” until we’re weakened enough they can actually pass it.
it’s like how the Right goads us into calling them “fascists” because they’re literally being fascists, the Right gaslights saying we’re always calling everyone “fascists,” until fascism reenters the Overton window because the Center thinks “fascism” doesn’t mean anything anymore.
honestly, the Left should have used this kind of meme magic back when Republicans were calling centrist Dems Socialists. if we’d used this strategy as well as the Right did we could be executing Billionaires by now.
it’s a kind of “irony laundering.”
I like this. Used to be a “joke”, then something to rally around and get outraged about, then - whoopsie, it’s reality.
And most people voted for the joke or the outrage, not the reality, as I’m sure even more will find out in the years to come.honestly, the Left should have used this kind of meme magic
Absolutely not. I know it’s “in” rn to say we have to use the same methods, no more Mr Nice Guy etc. but I disagree with that - generally, and specifically with this “meme magic”. It destroys reality, facts, truth.
There is something to be said for politicians/politics having a better social media presence though, a better sense of humor etc. No need to give up on facts at the same time.
Oh look it’s incredibly fucked up fascist policy again wow I’m so surprised who could have predicted this ?
What in tarnation? Is Trump Derangement Syndrome a real diagnosis now?
No, but he’s impacted mental health. I’ve had people with psychosis wondering, first term, why Trump hadn’t arrived to save them from their crappy lives yet. Crying. Shaking. Legit beside themselves with belief that he was riding in to save them from themselves post election. Going over the edge such that “the shot” needed to be deployed.
Needless to say, news was banned from that unit, airing it made breakdowns increase in both number and severity.
That said, this is not how the current conservative pundits are presenting this so called syndrome. This label is instead assisting in their dismissal of people who think Trump is having a negative impact on America, in whatever way(s) you choose to read his impact as negative. The way they toss “Trump Derangement Syndrome” around is not unlike the classic unhealthy male who can’t maintain a healthy romantic relationship and is thus quick to accuse the ex, all the exes, of being “crazy” in a sad attempt to rally social support. Similar tone.
I always thought it was a mental condition suffered by those who lack the cognitive function it takes to not vote for a fascist dictator.
No, just some terminally online Trump fans think it’s real.
Yeah, I’m using it get out of work Friday. Long weekend baby!
And here I thought it was Roadkill F. Kennedy that was gonna send me to a concentration camp for taking antidepressants. Welp I guess it’s the nuthouse for me instead. At least until being mentally ill at all gets you sent to the “rehabilitation farms.”
What’s the bill number? Is there a link to the text for a full read?
It’s a Minnesota bill and the link takes you to the full text.
