In the days after Donald Trump was elected president, a South Korean feminist movement is capturing young women’s interest on social media.

Summary

Following Donald Trump’s recent election victory, Google searches for “4B,” a South Korean feminist movement advocating a “no sex, no dating, no marriage, no children” stance, surged in the U.S.

The 4B movement, popular among young women on social media, promotes individual resistance against conservative politics and the erosion of reproductive rights.

The trend reflects a broader ideological divide between young men and women in the U.S., where women under 30 are significantly more liberal than men.

  • magnetosphere@fedia.io
    45·
    8 days ago

    “Young men expect sex, but they also want us to not be able to have access to abortion,” Thomas told The Post. “They can’t have both. Young women don’t want to be intimate with men who don’t fight for women’s rights; it’s showing they don’t respect us.”

    Sounds reasonable and fair to me.

      • protist@mander.xyzEnglish
        291·
        8 days ago

        I don’t think anyone involved thinks she’s talking about every single young man. Well, except you, of course

        • njm1314@lemmy.world
          133·
          8 days ago

          Now he’s just worried that they’re talking about him. Which they probably are considering his immediate defensive reaction.

          • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.worldEnglish
            251·
            8 days ago

            Jesus Fucking Christ, do we literally have to have women say things like:

            “Young men – not all, just some, well in some areas most, but a lot of young men – expect…”

            This tiptoeing bullshit to not anger some fragile men is insane. I lived as a straight man for over 40 years and this new idea that men are somehow put upon whenever a woman brings up being objectified, or has an issues with interactions with /takes a breath some, but not all, just a large amount, enough to be traumatizing, particularly as it’s systemic to the patriarchy, men.

            This is ridiculous semantic bullshit in response to women feeling like objects and pushing back.

            We’re better than this, and I’m tired of watching us act absolutely horrible whenever women point out systemic, extremely frequent issues they have with men, and have to inch around it so as to not break our fragile egos.

            • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
              3·
              8 days ago

              I agree. It’s like the whole “Not all men” deal: nitpicking the details of the phrasing instead of tackling the root issue. You’re only fighting those symptoms that affect you directly, not the root cause.

              The day I have someone yelling in my face that I’m to blame for some other man’s rape is the day I’ll argue about that issue. Until then, let’s focus on the actual problem: In this case (some) young men being pieces of garbage.

      • scarabine@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
        11·
        8 days ago

        It doesn’t seem generalized at all to me.

        • A series of laws are passed that make this thing riskier.
        • Do less of the risky thing.
        • Make it clear why.

        What’s the problem?

        • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
          22·
          8 days ago

          Hmm so this movement excludes men that want abortion to be available then? Missed that.

          • BassTurd@lemmy.world
            61·
            8 days ago

            I think the subtext implies that you can have sex with people that don’t suck. This is the female counterpart to, “don’t stick your dick in crazy”.

              • BassTurd@lemmy.world
                3·
                8 days ago

                Taking into context that it’s to protest people against reproductive rights, I take it that it’s to punish and withhold specifically from those people.

                • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
                  21·
                  8 days ago

                  That is mentioned nowhere in this argument. But the credo of the movement is:

                  No sex. No dating. No marrying men. No children.

                  This sounds pretty intentionally absolute in nature

          • EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
            3·
            8 days ago

            It’s about risk management, first and foremost.

            I suppose you might get a second look from a 4B-practitioner if you had a vasectomy (i.e. to remove the risk of pregnancy), but I’m a man so I can only speculate on this. And of course this isn’t such a great option if you do plan to have kids some day. Then again, despite the anti-abortion rhetoric of “don’t have sex if you aren’t ready to reproduce”, planned pregnancies are much more dangerous under abortion bans.

          • scarabine@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
            1·
            8 days ago

            Would you mind saying what you mean here? I’d like for you to explain your thought a little more.

            • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
              21·
              8 days ago

              I’m responding to “it doesn’t seem generalized at all”. If that were the case it would not be a movement based on absolutes that apply to all men

      • GetOffMyLan@programming.dev
        22·
        8 days ago

        It’s talking about people who support trump. But you can’t only target them as people will just hide their political views to get laid.

  • njm1314@lemmy.world
    244·
    8 days ago

    It’s always amazing how many men out themselves in these threads. Immediately angry and defensive. There’s no greater way to know that you’re exactly the kind of man these women are worried about than having that reaction.

    • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
      85·
      8 days ago

      In this thread a few people left mild and fair criticism and immediately got accused of being conservative. Some I recognized as having specifically progressive ideas in other threads.

      I think there are fair criticisms of this for sure. Saying them out loud does not mean you have anything but the opinion you say. And now watch, I’ll be dog piled and accused of hating women or whatever.

      Which isn’t true at all, it just seems kind of weird to deny yourself the pleasure of sex because… I guess… you don’t trust yourself to find a man who isn’t a piece of shit? Either that or you somehow believe such a person doesn’t exist? The only other option is it’s about being spiteful in a way that won’t help anyone at all. Conservative men are already having trouble getting women and you aren’t going to turn them liberal by not having sex with anyone. For this to ever work you’d need a large percentage of women to participate, which obviously isn’t going to happen.

  • Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de
    184·
    8 days ago

    Guys always ask me how to meet women. I say, " It’s easy, be polite and learn how to communicate." None of them succeed.

    • Mossy Feathers (She/They)@pawb.social
      101·
      8 days ago

      It’s really not that hard, I don’t get it. The only conclusion that I’ve been able to come to is that guys think being empathetic, polite and communicative will get them friend-zoned or something. That they have to be pushy about it or the gal will just be like, “you’re such a sweet guy, I think you’re a great friend”. You know, friends talk, partners fuck, or something like that.

      Does anyone actually say that? I swear I’ve heard it or something similar before…

      …Anyway, no, idiot, you’re getting friend-zoned because they’re just not into you that way. Being aggressive just gets you shut down faster too because you come off as impatient or desperate, or that you’re trying to do the song and dance because you have to, not because you want to. I don’t wanna be around a guy like that. That can be very concerning because it can indicate that all you want is sex and you’re just trying to find the right buttons to press on the “sex machine”. I get it, sometimes you just wanna fuck; but I’m a dragon human being, not a sex machine.

      But… If you want a reason why you shouldn’t be concerned about being friend-zoned: personally I’m more likely to trust and view someone favorably if they’re friends with someone I already know, or they’re surrounded by people who have good things to say about them (especially if they’re enbies and/or women). Doesn’t mean everyone’s like that, but if you have lady friends who enjoy just hanging out with you then that tells me that you’re way more likely to respect me, treat me like a dra… *cough* human, and that I’m probably going to be safe around you. Those are good things. Those are things I need to feel before I can feel anything else. Again, I can’t speak for everyone, but there’s a glimpse into how my feelings seem to work, and why I don’t think you really need to be scared of the “friend-zone”.

      Also, when it comes to wanting to “just fuck”; I’m waaaayy more open to that idea if we’re already good friends and neither of us are dating someone. Not everyone is like that, I’m probably kinda unusual in that regard, but… yeah.

      • Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de
        41·
        8 days ago

        Well said. I never worried about the friend zone bc I made my intentions known, “I like you and I want to date.” If she says she’s not into me then that’s it. 9/10 that women will be my “wingman” to find someone that likes me that way.

    • Entertainmeonly@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      81·
      8 days ago

      The bar is so low and yet they almost all fail. It’s down right scary. Just be polite and talk like a human being. Oh, and guys, don’t send the d pic unless asked. It really doesn’t do what you think it does.

      • Paddzr@lemmy.world
        7·
        8 days ago

        The issue is, they go with sole intention of meeting a partner. Women rightfully have their guard up. If you just interact with someone in a hobby you both share interest in, she’s more likely to be into you. But not after a fucking week for crying out loud!

      • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
        2·
        8 days ago

        The “bar” argument doesn’t exist. Plenty of women date shit bags. lol

      • Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de
        21·
        8 days ago

        What? You mean that awkward pose with us choking it like “the dog having something in their mouth,” is cool? Also me say hi then dick pic doesn’t get you going?

    • HeyJoe@lemmy.world
      4·
      8 days ago

      Not really… from personal experience, I couldn’t find a single woman to date or show interest until I was 25. I was and still am super nice and polite, apparently too much for most.

      I fully believe I am just ugly, and it is what it is. After being rejected for so long and never having the chance to have those experiences growing up, it did leave me in a bad place for a while.

      Good news is I did meet someone at 25 and we’re married now over 10 years and have 2 kids. This was also right before the rise of dating apps, which I wonder what impact they would have had if given the chance to use them.

      • Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de
        31·
        8 days ago

        Communicate and talk are two different things. People talk to each other to get what they want. Communication means you have to listen and give a shit. So many guys talk for 1 reason, sex. Women want sex to but don’t want an asshole that treats them like shit afterwards. Some guys can’t get that and think women should be blessed in their presents.

        • peopleproblems@lemmy.world
          1·
          8 days ago

          Oh I’m really good at the listening part.

          I don’t like the talking part. That’s the part I’m not good at. Or likely will ever be, which is ok. It’s scary.

  • peopleproblems@lemmy.world
    13·
    8 days ago

    I say good for them. Go for it. Dating is too stressful for me anyway.

    But I’m also a 30+ progressive with a son and ex so I also recognize that there are bigger fish to fry than getting laid.

  • venusaur@lemmy.world
    131·
    8 days ago

    Women will continue to demand better for themselves and some men will continue to get more radicalized in retaliation until we start raising boys to be empathetic and not sexualizing them so they feel entitled to people’s bodies.

    • PunnyName@lemmy.world
      6·
      8 days ago

      Consent and boundaries need to be learned at an early age.
      Understanding the emotions of others, and not being at the center of every interaction.
      Understanding individual bodily autonomy, and extension of that to others.

      These all need to be passed on in early life, because they are foundational to ensuring better overall social interactions with the opposite sex, knowing the worth of oneself and others, and being respectful to everyone including oneself.

      • Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world
        3·
        8 days ago

        I would be very interested in understanding how boys are treated differently now then when I was young (millennial here). Why are gen z men so upset?

        • PunnyName@lemmy.world
          4·
          8 days ago

          Many aren’t, which is part of the problem. There are still people who think beating children is acceptable punishment for change, despite evidence otherwise.

          Gentle parenting is one method I’ve seen that has promise.

          But when parents don’t actually try to learn how to parent, and don’t understand that they are raising an adult, generational bad behavior repeats itself with little growth.

        • undefined@lemmy.hogru.chEnglish
          2·
          8 days ago

          I’m a Millennial and I’m trying really hard not to judge Gen Z, but they’re more conservative, don’t know how to use tech, can’t sign their name, and can’t tell the difference between reality and conspiracies.

          I’m not a parent so I don’t know whether other Millennial parents are the problem, education, or something else but man do they just come off as a bunch of idiots.

    • peopleproblems@lemmy.world
      51·
      8 days ago

      You know what just dawned on me

      These guys essentially want sex dolls that can do chores. Sex dolls are way cheaper to take care of and they’ll learn to do chores themselves hiding it from everyone else lol

  • ShadowRam@fedia.io
    11·
    8 days ago

    But the large swatch of incel’s that voted for Trump aren’t going to be affect by this.

  • Earth Walker@lemmy.world
    101·
    8 days ago

    It’s a person’s decision whether to have sex, get married or date someone. They don’t need to justify that to anyone. No one criticizes men for choosing celibacy or choosing to remain single. But women don’t have that priviledge, so they have to justify themselves and still they will recieve criticism and hate from men just for choosing to exercise their personal freedom and live their life according to their values.

    • ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      7·
      8 days ago

      No one criticizes men for choosing celibacy or choosing to remain single.

      I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I have to take issue with this. Men do get criticized for choosing not to have sex, or choosing not to marry. A man who chooses not to have sex constantly has his manhood questioned. And any single man who has not been asked when he’s gonna find a nice girl and settle down is a man without family.

    • BlueKey@fedia.io
      6·
      8 days ago

      No one criticizes men for choosing celibacy or choosing to remain single.

      conservative parents enter the chat

      • PunnyName@lemmy.world
        1·
        8 days ago

        But incels are involuntarily celibate (per their reasoning), even if they don’t understand that they’re wrong.

  • nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    102·
    8 days ago

    Ill believe it when I see it, half these women have the most conservative SO you’ve ever met and tells them they’re good people at the end of hard days. Also these particular women are transphobes, so fuck them.

    • Paddzr@lemmy.world
      68·
      8 days ago

      Women also voted for trump.

      But Transphobes? Really? That’s where you draw the line? This is EXACTLY how the right pushed women to fight for their “identity” and turn against trans.

      If you generise them like that and try to diminish what biological woman is, you bet your ass someone will use it to turn those would would be your ally against you.

  • Ekybio@lemmy.world
    125·
    8 days ago

    Understandable.

    But sweaering of ALL men is neither healthy nor realistic and the 4B movement is not really helping the issue. Plua the movement is extremely transphobic and essentialist. Its just TERFs doing a thing again…

    A more practical solution: Dont date MAGA and leave them if need be. Take the children from them as well. They deserve scorn for voting in a dictator, just because they cant get laid. And they deserve to be reminded on how parhetic they are for all of it every single das until they change.

    • lettruthout@lemmy.worldEnglish
      10·
      8 days ago

      Agreed. I also can understand the feelings behind this, but it seems to ignore that quite a number of women voted for Trump.

      • QuarterSwede@lemmy.world
        62·
        8 days ago

        Bingo. My wife won’t vote for a woman president because she, not me, thinks that they’re too emotional. I know a decent amount of women in the workplace that feel the same way. I voted for Kamala because Trump is a paranoid narcissist that is a thief, liar, and can’t be trusted and she was a darn sight better to keep the boat moving predictably forward.

    • BossDj@lemm.ee
      5·
      8 days ago

      The problem is that some men will literally tell a woman anything they want to hear until they’re in bed. They will lie their ass off and avoid political discussion until after the proposal, then they’ll suggest maybe she could cook a little more

  • Isthisreddit@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    8 days ago

    I call bullshit. Any politicaly aware liberal/progressive woman can sniff out a conservative dude 5 miles away. They ain’t fucking these kinda dudes unless they actually wanna be fucking them. I just don’t see it

  • stoy@lemmy.zip
    3·
    8 days ago

    Man here, I fully agree with this.

    I have been hoping for something to bring down the birthrate of the states that restrict abortion since the restrictions started.

    I had been hoping for mass migration of 50% or so of all women from the relevant states, but I see how that can be difficult.

    I truly hope that they are successful in gaining their rights back.