I want to start by inviting everyone who are looking into this post to check the git commit linked before reading and after that read their current page, it will make more sense.
I think most people don’t understand the fact that Kagi is meta-search engine which literally collect the results of other search engines and display it and add very small amount of results from their index(tecilis).
They are starting to act shady this year(check the attached git commit to see their changes to their documentation page).
People basically pay them to search Yandex and Brave for them.
Before anyone say but privacy, they are closed source and there is a better open source meta search engines which actually respect your privacy and need your donations more than Kagi shareholders.
Open source alternative:
People in the tech community who care about their privacy need to understand that if a product is not open source it should NOT be trusted. Transparency is a necessary factor in guaranteeing privacy, otherwise we cannot see and prove if a person or company’s claim to privacy is true.
But be careful, being open source does not inherently make it trustworthy. It could be doing something nefarious that just hasn’t been caught yet.
Indeed.
However, proprietary code cannot be trusted to be trustworthy. FOSS can it’s just not guaranteed.
It’s not impossible to analyze and test compiled binaries.
While not theoretically impossible it’s impractical and unheard of for multiple trusted independent audit companies to be commissioned on an extremely regular basis.
Trustable proprietary software is like nuclear fusion as an energy source. Theoretically possible, but we sure as shit don’t have it.
Kagi has good search results and they are presented well. It also has some useful features like forbidding certain sites and prioritizing others. I like that by paying I’m the customer and not the product. And their “small web” initiative is commendable.
That said, I’ve been a customer for nine months on an annual subscription, and I will not be renewing. The first reason is that I find them just too expensive for what they do. The second is that, even being that expensive, they’re not breaking even. That undermines my trust in their future as a search engine and makes me less interested in paying a little extra for a good cause.
even being that expensive, they’re not breaking even
huh, I guess starting their own T-shirt business wasn’t that great of a move after all
It wasn’t even a business, it was just a huge purchase of tshirts for marketing, apparently, right at the beginning of their startup. Like, I have no idea why you would think distributing t-shirts would build your search engine’s business, let alone doing it when you’re trying to get your technology sorted out and running.
“Hey, neat shirt, what’s Kagi?”
“Why, it’s a search engine you pay for that searches other search engines and aggregates the results for you!”
“For realz, where has this been all my life?!? Sign me up, my brother!”
https://blog.kagi.com/celebrating-20k
The process from here involves setting up a business entity in Germany, so we can import the t-shirts, store them in a warehouse, connect inventory logistics and ship them all over the world. This includes building a website and connecting it to a back-end database. So, we basically ended up owning a merch production operation end-to-end, just so that we could ensure premium quality of these t-shirts!
like… why
That’s hilarious.
It’s not fair to call Kagi just meta search engine. As you mentioned they do have their own index, it’s just that they are complementary. They even show you how much of the results are unique results from their index. They’re very open about it.
there is a better open source meta search engines which actually respect your privacy and need your donations more than Kagi shareholders.
Privacy I can definitely agree on but the actual search result is not better. I think it’s safe to say that if you’re paying for Kagi, you know what Searxng is and can spin up one if you want. I’ve done it myself and it was clearly not better.
And if you think about it, if you self host Searxng, that means all the search query + your IP goes to search providers which kinda kills the point, unless you use VPN or Tor, both of which have their drawbacks.
If you use hosted instance, you have to trust them. Being an opensource project doesn’t mean a lot when you can’t go through the source code that is actually running.
At some point you have to trust someone. I happened to trust Kagi to some extent.
I tried SearXNG but the UI/UX was so shitty that I’d honestly rather pay for Kagi. Lots of people love it because it’s open source and are willing to 100% look past all UI/UX problems, which is a very common problem with open source in general.
Also, the actual quality of the results was garbage compared to Kagi.
You can change UI theme on SearchX
I know, and all the options look pretty bad IMO. That also doesn’t fix UX problems.
And I’ve found SearxNG to provide fantastic results, though I’m using it self-hosted so maybe that’s the difference? I started using it as a test about a month ago, and I’ve converted by default search engine on my machines to it because it’s delivered excellent, un-cluttered results for anything I’ve looked for on technical and non-technical searches.
Now you’re not going to believe this, ladies and gentlemen, there was a time - not too longer ago in fact - where people called these metacrawlers, and they were beloved. People would say “Dogpile” yes, that might help, because - bare with me again - search was shit. But, comparing lot of different shit sources would generally give you ok information, and generally reveal at least a lot of different sources which could help find and gather information.
Now I’m not calling Kagi reputable in anyway, but if metacrawling helped with the situation before, maybe we should try it again.
People basically pay them to search Yandex and Brave for them.
Basically, you’re surprised that people will pay money for someone else to host and run a service for them instead of hosting it themselves?
I do and I like the results? Like, I get how we have to be cautious with closed-source private services. This just reads to me as clickbait to put down on people that use kagi lol. Also searxng isn’t really private either as you can’t be sure what your instance is actually running, and self-hosting just links everything to your IP as other people mentioned…
I don’t quite understand how this is an issue.
I mean personally I’m happy with anonymised ads from DDG in return for anonymised Bing searches (+their own guffins) but I think it’s fair enough, if you really want to see no ads, that some turn to Kagi.
Self hosted SearXNG. Period.
The page you linked clearly explains that they use other search engine sources, which makes your post either wrong or intentionally misleading:
Our search results also include anonymized API calls to all major search result providers worldwide, specialized search engines like Marginalia, and sources of vertical information such as Wolfram Alpha, Apple, Wikipedia, Open Meteo, Yelp, TripAdvisor, and other APIs. Typically, every search query on Kagi will call a dozen or so different sources simultaneously
The page you linked clearly explains that they use other search engine sources
it doesn’t specify which ones, though.
Our search results also include anonymized API calls to:
- all major search result providers worldwide, [such as?]
- specialized search engines like Marginalia,
- and sources of vertical information such as Wolfram Alpha, Apple, Wikipedia, Open Meteo, Yelp, TripAdvisor, and other APIs
it doesn’t specify which ones, though.
OP specifically stated that “They deleted the fact that they are a metasearch engine”.
Which goes back to my original point that the post is pointless as OP is either wrong or being intentionally misleading.
You specifically stated that “They deleted the fact that they are a metasearch engine”.
I specifically didn’t.
Touche.
What alternative do you use for indexed searches of the fediverse? Do any of the open meta engines allow source ranking like Kagi does? Looked at the git changes. Think you will need to point out the shady ones. It’s not inherently obvious. Do you have a specific recommendation for an open Kagi competitor (that has fediverse indexing as mentioned)? I’ve heard people talk about DDG options and those pale in comparison with real world use in my use cases.
Edit: also, your title reads like you are making an effort toward being insulting or derogatory. It’s not a great way to initiate productive conversation.
there is a better open source meta search engines
I already use Searxng and have never used Kagi, but I’m curious why you say that Searxng is “better.” Are you saying that because the quality of the searches is better, because it’s open source and Kagi isn’t, or for some other reason?
I like and support Kagi. Whatever.
