I got into this argument the other day. People’s arrogance and lack of common sense was disappointing.
I’m going to be 100% with yall that comment and post this shit.
Before I go on, let me say I voted dem and know they would be better for the world over Trump.
But is that’s the standard and argument you expect people to vote for, you are in for a rude awakening… To anyone reading this or agreeing with these outright insulting comments and posts about how you know better need to take a long look in the mirror. Because…
If the only support you are giving to the Palestinian and Arab people is voting Dem and having arguments about lesser evils, then you are not helping the situation.
Yes vote dem. But get off your ass and protest, donate, and support those communities currently harmed be democrats disastrous Gaza and Middle East policy. That’s how you sway hearts and minds. These fucking backhanded, self serving, ignorant posts and comments won’t stop anything but prove to those communities that the democrats base does not give a shit about anything that doesn’t directly effect themselves.
Yall are missing the forest from the trees. Not voting for the light genicidal party nor the full genicidal party isn’t some gotcha win for Trump. It’s a failure on our part to demand our party doesn’t continue using our votes to do harm.
call your senators daily and demand they publicly denounce Israel and the IDF. Donate money to organizations that are saving lives destroyed by our bombs. March with your fellow Palestinian and Arab brothers and sisters. Divest and boycott any business with ties to Isreal and the IDF.
But Ya im sure comparing individuals that have lost friends and family to bombs provided by the Democrat administration, to Lord Farquaad. We’re better than this. This is just conservative tactics used on a population that we need to vote blue! We are better than this! show some empathy and get involved. I have Palestinian friends and they would spit in your face if you said this kind of shit to their face because it’s removing the humanity of the 40k people killed by Isreal via bombs provided by Biden/Harris. If you/we don’t care why should they?
Edit: just realized how tone deaf this post is. Who’s more like Lord Farquaad? Palestinian and Arab Americans who’s friends and family are being displaced, starved, and bombed? Or literally the leadership that didn’t even allow Palestinians to speak at a convention and is currently providing bombs and aid to Isreal?
Thank you so much for this detailed response. I think I’m gonna vote for Kamala, not because I think Kamala is gonna do good things for the Middle East.
I’m voting because either we get a president that may or may not listen to protesters, or we’ll get one that will wipe out protesting nationwide.
Pretty sure people are gonna die regardless of which genocidal wacko is elected.
People are going to die no matter what. It’ll be different amounts though. One of the two has called for Israel to “finish the job” and constantly talks about how he likes what they’re doing. The other condemns it, but is criticized that the administration isn’t doing enough, which is fair, but also I know who I’d want to win if I lived in Gaza. I don’t think the people there care how good you feel about “keeping your hands clean” and acting morally superior. They want to live, while these people want to play games.
Have you considered listening to what they actually say as opposed to projecting your own beliefs onto them?
Have you? I’ve listened to quite a few. Sadly, dead people can’t say anything though. I hope they retain the ability to speak.
Are there any major Palestinian organization that have endorsed Harris?
An endorsement is not the only part of support. Giving an endorsement removes your leverage. Why would they endorse her if she’s not doing what they ask? She’s the better option, but they still want more from her than she’s promising, so they should withhold their endorsement.
Sometimes I think you people don’t understand politics or power structures, then I realize it doesn’t matter and you aren’t actually arguing from reason.
No, the reason you just laid out is literally my exact reason for not supporting her. Why would you lay that out and then claim I’m unreasonable or don’t understand things for following the exact same line of logic?
Not giving an endorsement isn’t the same thing as wanting people to not vote for her. Giving an endorsement is the end of negotiations. Once you give it up, you’re done. Obviously they aren’t going to do that, but it doesn’t mean they don’t think she’s the best choice, unless they endorse someone else. Until they do that, it’s telling voters to do what they think is best on their own. What’s best for Gaza is obviously Harris being elected instead of Trump (and there isn’t anyone else it could be).
The elections haven’t happened yet. Withhold your support for Harris until she changes her mind on Gaza
People refusing to vote for Harris becuase of a foreign conflict they understand nothing about is peak stupidty.
Granted, I don’t know much about the conflict. I’ve read about it on Wikipedia and it gets more and more nuanced and complex at every turn.
HOWEVER.
There are candidates who advocate for stopping the killing. This is not a high bar. This is a bar I would like to see Kamala reach.
Why aren’t you asking Trump to advocate for stopping the killing?
Tbh that’s a fair point, although careful what you wish for since that could get him elected
Sure, more Palestinians will die
Sure, Ukrainians will die
Sure, US minorities will die
Sure, the entire world will suffer from a fascist demagogue at the head of the most powerful country in the world
But have you considered that, for a few brief moments of time,
we created a lot of value for the shareholderswe got to feel smug over the SHITLIBS who wanted to prevent fascism?This was a great comment until you implied only conservatives are deciding not to vote for Harris due to our support of Israel.
I was making fun of that short-sighted self-serving nature by making a comparison to capitalist conservatives, not asserting that champagne socialists are, themselves, capitalist conservatives (though, functionally, their actions serve the same goals).
Short-sighted self-serving is what happens when people promote a lesser evil out for fear of a greater one.
They are not willing to risk their lives in the pursuit of an end to our complicity in genocide. More concerned with their current sense of safety in the heart of the Empire than the violence employed to maintain it. Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
But hey, at least we can all look forward to doing this again when Trump runs in 2028, right? Democrats surely won’t triangulate even further to the right in pursuit of the mythical moderate Republican voter, right?
Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
God, accelerationism is so fucking dumb.
As opposed to what, doing the same thing every election in the hopes that it will somehow turn out differently this time?
I mean, that or all the angry young/middle age voters could, gasp show up to the primaries and move the party to the direction they’d like to see. Instead, the elderly voters, despite being a much smaller share of the population, outvote the heck out of them.
If folks like you paid attention to politics when it matters, not just when it was trendy, things would be a lot different.
Then again, reading what you’ve written, maybe it’s for the best y’all don’t.
I love the idealism, I lost mine decades ago.
Realistically, this is America we’re talking about. A literal pandemic that killed millions was only worth a 16% bump in the total vote count. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that this country is not and has never been a real democracy, the sooner you’ll be able to stop relying on the electoral system to save the world.
Also, I resent the assertion that I don’t pay attention to politics. I pay too much attention to politics. To the point that I predicted this exact scenario for the 2024 election back in 2015 when the DNC first started openly conspiring against Bernie, months before they ratfucked him out of the primary. I was the only person among my family and friends not to be surprised when Hillary lost in 2016. I knew the incumbent for 2024 would have to drop out to give the VP a chance at winning against Trump literally years before we learned that Biden was going to be that incumbent. I feel like Cassandra, cursed with foreknowledge that none will heed.
Anyways, the problem isn’t “trends” or a lack of interest from the youth, the fundamental issue is that electoral politics is a trap. Do vote in local and national elections, of course, but if voting is all you’re putting your energy into then you’re doing it wrong. And our political media ecosystem is designed to ensure that most people do it wrong by investing literal billions into election campaign coverage.
The real forefront of American politics is the union movement. Now that they’re starting to throw off their old business-friendly management and implementing democratic processes for replacing them, they’re taking position to become the driving force behind the new left. Watch for that over the next few years as the Republican party falls apart from the blowback against Trump’s attempts to steal the election while the Democrats continue triangulating to the right to pick up the “moderate” leftovers and alienating their own left wing.
Everyone who doesn’t support a corporatist duopoly is lazy, dumb, and/or working for the geopolitical rival to my dominant hegemonic country!
One can only wonder why you have not convinced more people with your message and Harris is now losing.
It’s like we learned nothing from history:
“How dare you protest!!!”
Literally all Kamala has to do is announce a plan to stop war crimes and gain these votes back. The fact she won’t is on her, not on the people concerned over Gaza.
By the way, I don’t support Trump, I don’t think you should vote for Trump, but if you want to protest by supporting third parties until Kamala changes her policy you have my full support
Let’s imagine a world where we stop sending weapons to Israel. What does a disarmed Israel look like, in your imagination? How will it affect the geopolitical situation in the middle east?
Obviously Israel would stop killing Palestinians if they knew we wouldn’t support their existence. They know we’ll continue to support them, so that’s why they’re still killing Palestinians
Why doesn’t Trump have to announce a plan to stop war crimes? Why does Harris always have a higher bar to overcome than Trump? A protest to save lives has failed if more people die because of the protest.
Do you want Trump to win? Because that’s how you get Trump to win
Even if Kamala does announce this, does she have the support of Congress to do so? And would Netanyahu even listen if they did? The stuff happening in the Middle East has been going on for decades and I doubt it’ll stop anytime soon, unfortunately. Even without Western arms.
That’s obviously not true since Raegan stopped bombing in (I believe) Lebanon with one phone call
oh i’m sure the comments on this post will be real civil
