This shit is why end to end encryption is so important.
All platforms, no matter how trustworthy, can be corrupted. No e2e, no privacy.
But this is intentional. TG’s ToS forbids alternative clients with their own E2EE.
Also he’s the VK founder, which kills any idea of “trustworthy” immediately.
It’s part of TG’s business model, I think, something in the price list for governments. And the way they treat alternative clients in reality also hints that maybe backdoors are as well. Say, a new message format of the day (they add them really often) arrives in a new official Telegram version, somehow it’s nowhere to be seen in the channels and groupchats you’re in, but some day a DM arrives with harmless text and some code runs on your client machine.
I use Telegram, but trusting it would be asinine. Even trustworthy services can be abused, and TG doesn’t even pretend to be that.
I think he got arrested because happening to be in Baku for a couple weeks and then still be there at the same time with Putin-Aliyev meeting, and their agreements apparently having intersections with Durov’s activity, is openly weird.
Useless. Current allegations are related to the absence of moderation. Moderation of public content, in public channels or chats. As you can guess, end to end encryption does not protect public content.
Unlike other chat services Telegram has a “social” aspect and search capabilities for locating public discussion channels.
Furthermore E2EE is optional and most people don’t turn it on and is certainly not on in public channels.
While techies are freaking out about an attack on encryption the articles I’ve read so far don’t mention anything about encryption or otherwise it seems that French police is concerned about moderation or attempts at moderation of those public channels, that Telegram specifically refuses to moderate.
Perhaps this will be an attack on encryption by stealth but at this point that’s not what it looks like.
As a personal anecdote when I installed Telegram a few years ago and searched for my city’s name the top 20 results where channels offering to sell you heroin - which I thought was so blatant as to be certain it was police sting operations - but who knows.
Unlike other chat services Telegram has a “social” aspect and search capabilities for locating public discussion channels.
That’s the good part. I hope something else takes the niche.
But it being very insecure and positioned as secure is bad.
Telegram has always had the sketchiest people on it. I refuse to use it because it feels like I’m talking with human traffickers. Doesn’t surprise me he was arrested.
I refuse to use it because it feels like I’m talking with human traffickers
I, too, prefer spending my time on subs related to things I neither own, used nor enjoy!
So never used the app, but flat out make that assumption. Check. lol
I’m a sex worker so I get a LOT of requests to use Telegram. Human trafficking is something I am directly exposed to and I am in danger of. The men who request to use Telegram make me feel in danger. So it doesn’t surprise me the owner of that app was arrested. My assumption comes from my experience.
This sub isn’t a telegram sub, it’s a technology one. I use technology.
Sounds like French law enforcement wants a police state that supercedes the civil rights of the public.
You know, the French public have a reputation for getting ugly when the state gets uppity.
That sword over Damocles is swaying in the breeze.
English language story from Reuters (no paywall) for anyone that doesn’t speak French…
“criticism from X owner Elon Musk who said that free speech in Europe was under attack.”
Comes from the guy who bans certain words and anything negative about him on X. Oh the irony.
Please know men like him care more about dominance than intellectual honesty. He doesn’t care about the actual philosophical nature of free speech. He cares about getting his way.
Power, money. Fuck the rest.
Looks like France is enforcing chat control 2.0 a bit prematurely.
The EU council is meeting to discuss it again on October 10. A new vote is likely in mid-December. Many parties and countries have turned their coat to support the proposal.
I have not followed this at all. Seems okay at face value. Is that the point, that “protect the kids” a is pretext to creep towards eventual screening of everything?
The meme says the big internet companies are already doing this. Isn’t it a legit problem that this sort of harmful child sexual abuse material just moves around the internet like whack-a-mole?
The Democratic nations of the world have all gone to Telegram and begged for help to address human trafficking, to address terrorism, to literally prevent wars, and they are told to fuck off. Seems criminal to me.
What should be criminal is forcing private citizens to act as police officers and throwing them in jail if they refuse.
And some people think Brazil is being extreme on putting fines for X (Twitter) to pay for not blocking some accounts.
This guy is accused of being accomplice to crime just for creating and maintaining the platform where criminals do their dealings.
The road is downhill, my friends.
If somebody runs a market hall and allows stalls to be set up where narcotics and CSAM is being sold, and profits from it, and ignores police requests to stop it, I would like something to happen against that person. That person is complicit.
What I can’t understand is why telegram doesn’t just set up the some moderation systems. Most of their growth surely doesn’t come from drug dealers and pederasts? It feels like it would be a tiny element of it and not worth the hassle.
I suspect Durov doesn’t like dealing with big teams and can’t be bothered.
I’m a heavy user of Telegram (average about 1h of screen time every day, and pay for Telegram Premium) entirely because all my friends are on it and that’s because it is the best messaging client BY FAR. I’d love not to share this platform with criminals.
Since when did fighting crime become a “totalitarian state” thing to do?
What crimes did he personally commit?
From translating TFA:
Justice considers that the absence of moderation, cooperation with law enforcement and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, child crime offenses and fraud.
Same reason Russia wanted to arrest him, failure to do the government’s bidding.
By that logic we should arrest all Car company CEOs for being complicit in crime lol, it’s not exactly his choice what people do with his product
Not really comparable because the illegal content is hosted and distributed through his servers. Which is why most sites are moderated to a degree. This dude basically said “fuck off” whenever takedowns were issued. It’s hardly a surprise that he’s been arrested.
Not really comparable because the illegal content is hosted and distributed through his servers.
landlords should be prosecuted for crimes commited by tenants in houses they rented out to the tenants.
If the landlord knows it’s happening and let it happen then yeah, that’s what being complicit is all about
how are you meant to know, by impeding on your tenant’s privacy constantly?
Well, telegram has public and private conversations. So in this example, you’d know because they were having trafficking parties on their front yard and the police of multiple countries notified them to let them know. And then you were aware of this issue so you purposely avoided being in numerous countries that want to arrest you. Seems like he knew.
The analogy works if you lease or rent.
Rent a car, commit a crime, boom — rental company is on the hook apparently. Moronic.
The rental company, on the other hand, is more than willing to turn you in to not be considered liable. Which they probably would be if they impeded an investigation.
Illegal content is distributed through snail mail and telephones too, but those are common carriers so they aren’t liable. Why should Telegram be any different?
Next they’ll make encrypting your own files illegal. Absolutely preposterous. Do better police work!
Told Russia to fuck off, and now France is complicit.
Tells us a lot about how governments view Telegram.
Reeks of the chat history access attempts and the like, or is it just my paranoia?
