Last time I called Rittenhouse a murderer here, one of his inbred cult wanted to argue. Let’s see if that happens again:
Kyle Rittenhouse is a murderer.
Kyle Rittenhouse is a murderer.
Who is Kyle? Did you mean Kyla?
Sorry, I will show myself out.
Haha misgendering is so funny you’re so funny
“Kyla” sounds like “killer” (i.e., murderer); the only misgendering here is in your head.
If “Kyla” sounds like “killer” then “Kyle” sounds like “kill”. Which it doesn’t.
The wiki article that covers the events of that night is a excellent resource.
No i will argue that he is a transgender murderer.
Nothing wrong with being transgender. Find an insult that you aren’t borrowing from the far-right.
Don’t use bigoted slurs or marginalized groups as an insult, but absolutely use their other insults against them. In their minds those are the worst things you can call someone, and to hear them used against “their side” drives them wild.
Call their favorite fascist a “degenerate”, “freak”, or “NPC” – their reactions are hilarious.
Edit:
If we can’t have a fact based conversation about anything then I don’t know what the point is. As a leftie this type of rhetoric really saddens me. I thought we were better than the Maga crowd.
Does every act of self defense automatically classify someone as a murderer?
BTW, for the record I’m a leftie progressive. I’m not a conservative and I hate the Maga crowd. But the events that led to the death of those people that day was due to self defense.
This has been established through clear video footage and a lengthy trial with a jury of his peers.
Anyone who disagrees needs to establish they know the facts of the matter beyond news headlines or Twitter opinions.
The problem with this country today is rampant misinformation.
Can you demonstrate why it wasn’t self defense?
I summoned one. Again.
How disappointing.
Could you possibly use your occult powers for good? Pretty please?
Thanks for not repeating unverified social media talking points. I knew I could count on you for nuanced and intelligent discussion. You know, with misinformation being rampart it’s good to know people like you are around to definitely not propagate false talking points.
Where would you have been if I hadn’t called you?
I don’t care any more. Let’s just continue with the narratives we’ve established we like and not listen to anyone else. It’s all good. You keep doing you.
If we can’t have a fact based conversation about anything then I don’t know what the point is. As a leftie this type of rhetoric really saddens me. I thought we were better than the Maga crowd.
Nobody wants to have a conversation with you. It was just a check if people like you are still around. You confirmed. No more conversation is needed. Nobody is required to waste their breath on you.
Then don’t position yourself as above the Maga crowd. You are all the same.
It’s mostly just this place. You find this tribalist response on a lot of topics here. Other instances aren’t as cultish. Good on you for arguing your case, but it falls on deaf ears. The discourse could use some improvements
Thanks. I have to adopt a different strategy. I even asked the people I was “debating” for advice on what I’m doing wrong and they still found reason to put me down. It could be the tone that’s inferred in written communication. I have no idea.
r/AsABlackMan front page has your twitter post
I voted for Bernie in the 'primary, I voted for Biden and I’m voting for Kamala. Trump is a piece of shit insurrectionist that should not be on the ballot.
If every time someone on your side points a criticism you do this game, it’s the exact same thing the Maga crowd does with labeling anti - trump Republicans as RINOS.
If all you care about is labels and how fast you can pin someone in a box so you don’t have to engage with a conversation that says more about you.
People have engaged with your comments. The ardent defense of Rittenhouse does not match with progressivism.
Especially in context of Rittenhouse becoming a right wing hero and not regretting his actions.
This is another weird thing. Because I’m interested in the facts of the matter people assume by default that I’m interested in defending Kyle. I don’t care for Kyle. I think hes a pos. But this weird response is always like the top comment I get. You’re not A so you must be B. So we can’t talk about the facts of something without the need to box someone in.
I’m quoting you here:
“As a European that lived in America briefly (ten years) I was very shocked when I encountered the gun culture there.”
“I voted for Bernie in the 'primary, I voted for Biden and I’m voting for Kamala. Trump is a piece of shit insurrectionist that should not be on the ballot.“
How are these two things possible without you being a liar?
What part is hard to believe exactly? I moved to the US in 2012 from Italy. I lived there for ten years. While I was there the gun culture was something I never really got accustomed to. What part of this makes me a liar? I’m so confused.
Edit:
Guys. I have dual citizenship. My mother is a US expat. I can vote in both Italian and US elections.
If every time someone on your side
Not “our” side…? You’re slipping, kid. Thought you was moar lefty than all the rest of us combined.
I have you tagged as [Conservative] so I don’t mistake you for someone worth having a discussion with.
What extension did you use to do that, I want to have a look at it
No extensions, just a standard feature on boost
So as a person on the left I cannot fact check anything that gets repeated on our side? I don’t understand this need to silence people so hard because they asked a question or have a disagreement with a position. It’s truly bizarre. If it makes you feel better to label me something and that’s the best you can do, go ahead.
Holy shit! You’re so far left, we’re ALL right of you!
our side
GTFO, nobody here is your kin by blood or morals.
Facts are important, but it’s not possible to come with only the ones you prefer. You need to make room for more.
- He obtained firearms illegally, from people who encouraged him to take violent action throughout his upbringing.
- He didn’t believe he was acting valorous, he thought he was going to get to shoot people.
- It turned out very different than he expected and he did what he was conditioned to do, it was murder and it was in self defense. It was very sad.
- He’s since gone on to gloat about it and threaten to do stuff like that again.
That people are looking at all this and thinking it seems like premeditated murder that turned into a panicked self defense (except with a literal killing weapon on hand, which he brought!) is perfectly reasonable.
To be honest, debating it feels gross. It seems more sensible to just recognize that it makes sense people would feel this way, and move on. Regardless of what the courts say, this conclusion makes total sense.
The user laid out an argument, a reasoning and asked you a question. All you can do is “LA LA LA” doesn’t fit my narrative and insult. Hmm reminds me of some people I know. At least tell them why you think what you think other than omg Rittenhouse bad.
And I am on rittenhouse’s side on this one. Simply because he has gone up against a jury of his peers and been found innocent. If we stop obeying the rule of law then we are no better than terrorists. Want the law to change? Vote, don’t insult your peers
Two.
I’m a mind reader, I have read your mind and know your response to this message.
It was self defense, which is a good kind of murder.
It was self defense, which is a good kind of murder.
There’s no such thing as a good kind of murder.
Necessary, justified, other adjectives sure…but it’s never good.
Even killing the worst scum so that they don’t commit other horrible atrocities isn’t good.
It all sucks. Murder just isn’t good.
Murdering pedophiles and rapists is a universal good. Serial killers and animal abusers are damn close as well.
Wow this is shockingly easy. Three.
Called it
This is the “The Civil War was about State’s Rights” argument and I need a meme of a duck saying “Why was Rittenhouse there in the first place?”
WHY WAS HE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!
I’m a leftie progressive (…) But the events that led to the death of those people that day was due to self defense.
So you’re not a willfully blind idiot for party political reasons. I wonder what convinced you then…
This has been established through clear video footage and a lengthy trial with a jury of his peers
Ah, an ignorant faith in the veracity of doctored or otherwise misleading out of context footage and the integrity of the US legal system 🤦
Can you demonstrate why it wasn’t self defense?
Dude brought an AR-15 to a word fight. In another state. After telling friends that he wanted to shoot BLM protesters. He then harassed peaceful protesters until some of them tried to stop him. He then murdered the people trying to stop him.
As someone who followed the trial closely, the evidence couldn’t be more clear.
But if all you’re going to do is handwave it away because of conspiracies that
- The trial was rigged
- The video was doctored
Then I don’t know what to discuss. This rhetoric identical with Maga republicans that claim the election was stolen and Hillary Clinton is harvesting the endocrine glands of children.
If we can’t have a fact based conversation about anything then I don’t know what the point is. As a leftie this type of rhetoric really saddens me. I thought we were better than the Maga crowd.
But if all you’re going to do is handwave it away because of conspiracies
That’s categorically not what I’m doing.
This rhetoric identical with Maga republicans that claim the election was stolen and Hillary Clinton is harvesting the endocrine glands of children.
Fuck off with that horseshoe theory bullshit. You’re clearly lying about being a leftist progressive in order to lend your credulity a false veneer of impartiality.
If we can’t have a fact based conversation about anything
Clearly we can’t, but I’m not the one responsible for that.
As a leftie this type of rhetoric really saddens me. I thought we were better than the Maga crowd
Big Dean Browning vibes.
Big oof here. I see a lot of your comments and am surprised you’re pulling the same us vs them behavior as the MAGA crowd.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and defends murderers like a duck, it’s probably a Dean.
So let me get this right: we can’t criticize any position that our side takes because that automatically brands us as posers, right? Who else plays this game? Do you see how close to the MAGA crowd we’ve circled back to? They do the exact same game to anyone that disagrees with their narrative (See RINO).
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YOU said the video was doctored or taken out of context. But then you never backed that up.
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YOU said the integrity of the judicial system can’t be trusted (even though I followed the trial very closely). There is no evidence this case was rigged
It’s this odd knee-jerk reaction I see here on Lemmy anyone that disagrees with established narratives is automatically branded:
- Outsider / other
- Facts become irrelevant
I MUST brand you as something. I can’t engage with someone unless I put a label on them.
Your goal is not to disprove my points or engage with what I’ve said. It’s to silence me by putting a label.
Notice how I never ascribed a label to you. I don’t know if you’re conservative, tankie, republican, or independent. I didn’t call you names. I didn’t accuse you of bad faith.
ALL I DID: I brought the facts of the matter and I described how similar your rhetoric is to the way elements of the far right manifest themselves. As a leftie all I want to do is combat misinformation. But just that was enough to get me all the downvotes and labels needed to put me in a box so we don’t have to hear about it.
So let me get this right: we can’t criticize any position that our side takes because that automatically brands us as posers, right
Nope, that’s a ridiculous strawman. You’re allowed to take any position you want. Just as I’m allowed to have my suspicions when you take positions that make no sense outside of credulity caused by far right gaslighting.
Who else plays this game? Do you see how close to the MAGA crowd we’ve circled back to? They do the exact same game to anyone that disagrees with their narrative (See RINO).
More horseshoe theory bullshit. Even if you WERE right about me (you’re not), equating anything I’ve said with the utterly insane drivel of a literal fascist movement is the kind of thing disingenuous “moderates” and cosplaying Republicans do.
YOU said the video was doctored or taken out of context. But then you never backed that up.
I backed it up by providing the context that the video omits: that he traveled heavily armed across state lines to a peaceful protest in order to shoot protesters, deliberately provoked protesters until some of them tried to stop him and then murdered those protesters.
Those are actual facts that the biased judge ordered stricken from the record because they made it clear that it was all premeditated rather than spur of the moment self defense.
There is no evidence this case was rigged
Yeah there is, see above.
YOU said the integrity of the judicial system can’t be trusted
Yeah, I tend not to trust a system where a biased judge who has no business presiding over a case can just arbitrarily throw out crucial evidence because it doesn’t match his predetermined conclusion and nobody can do anything about it.
I’m kooky like that.
It’s this odd knee-jerk reaction I see here on Lemmy anyone that disagrees with established narratives is automatically branded:
- Outsider / other
- Facts become irrelevant
This you?
I MUST brand you as something. I can’t engage with someone unless I put a label on them
I didn’t accuse you of bad faith
Not explicitly, no, but your opening comment accused EVERYONE not convinced about his innocence of bad faith, so excuse me if I don’t celebrate your magnificently magnanimous restraint 🙄
I brought the facts of the matter
Nope. You brought your conclusion based on omitting key evidence.
described how similar your rhetoric is to the way elements of the far right manifest themselves
Which, again, is horseshoe theory bullshit. Especially when it’s not even CLOSE to true like in this case.
As a leftie
Give it a rest, Dean. Nobody’s buying it.
all I want to do is combat misinformation
Spreading it is an awfully peculiar way of going about that task…
But just that was enough to get me all the downvotes and labels needed to put me in a box so we don’t have to hear about it.
Nah, you got that for lying and trying to distort reality in order to defend a murderer and then doubling down when corrected.
Actually. Scratch my last comment. I want your advice.
We’ve had disagreements before and every time you seem to go all seem to devolve into the same labeling and accusations of bad faith.
What is the appropriate way to express disagreement or question a mainstream narrative on this platform in such a way I don’t get labeled something (ie the way you did when you called me zionist or Dean browning here). Give me some pointers. I want to get better.
Don’t say vague stuff ( don’t lie etc). Pretend I’m asking in good faith. Actually try to engage with me as if I was a human being.
I never ad hommed. I never labeled you. I never accused you of bad faith.
Yet you felt the need to introduce Dean Browning. Because what? I introduced myself as a leftie? Did you ever stop stop and wonder why I have to put that disclaimer in the first place on this platform? It’s because every discussion seems to devolve into name calling rather then engaging with the matter.
You felt the need the need to accuse me of lying, yet you never provided evidence the judge was biased, the trial was rigged or the video was doctored - all your claims. You provided some context. Neat.
If it wasn’t 0730, I’d try a drinking game based on your comments. He said “As a lefty”! Drink!
The way you insist on saying it, I’d be sauced by 0745.
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In my days, I’ve met a leftist or two. And not a single one had to pepper every sentence with “I’m a lefty,” or “as a leftist…”
I think thou doth protest too much.
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It wasn’t a word fight, both sides had devolved to rioting by this point.
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It was his home state through his father.
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No records show him harassing “peaceful” protesters, but the first man that was shot’s girlfriend testified he had reached for Rittenhouses weapon, the second guy was attempting to knock him over with a scateboard, and the third guy was pointing a gun at him.
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It was self defense according to the law, which we can argue is or is not murder, in which case even if it is self defense is a good thing.
You don’t inherit a home state, lol
If you have two seperste homes you have two seperate home states. Divorced parents can live across state lines.
He didn’t live with his father at this time, which is why he had to get a ride from out of state from his mom
What government agency or organization allows you to claim two different households as your main residency?
After the first guy everyone was trying to stop an active shooter.
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Intent: They drove like over an hour across state lines to Kenosha in hopes of finding somebody to kill then placed himself in harms way by wandering into a group of people.
The goal was always to kill people and thats what makes it murder.
the goal was always to kill people
This is the crux. This mens rea was not proven. And the fact that he waited long after he was chased and pinned to the ground before he started firing is critical to this injunction.
People on this board automatically assume that because I’m defending the non guilty verdict I’m automatically absolving Kyle Rittenhouse of all culpability. The kid was an idiot that made some very bad decisions that will likely haunt him the rest of his life. He was 17 and should have known better. He’s not completely innocent in my book. I just love how nuanced and wonderfully fact-based Lemmy is when it comes to these charged topics. It’s so refreshing.
Has it been proven that he was hoping to kill somebody when he drove across state lines?
Why else go to a riot zone with an AR?
Can you make sense of that?
I don’t think “teen vigilante car dealership security” is a real job, so we can confirm he wasn’t there for that.
Regarding victim number one. Bringing a gun to a protest and starting shit then shooting people doesn’t constitute self defense because you normally can’t provoke the situation you are defending yourself from. Also the only thing that made the situation deadly dangerous was literally the gun in his hand if not for that it would have been a fist fight at worst. More likely absent a weapon to give him courage he just wouldn’t have started shit.
Regarding victims 2 and 3 they were trying to stop what they correctly perceived as an active shooter they did not pursue lethal force against him he could have surrendered the gun non-violently. You normally have a legal obligation to use the lease force possible.
The law being what it is guilt or innocence it a fight is often questionable and subject to state specific laws but morally speaking I don’t understand why anyone would not hold him responsible for what happened. He is by all accounts a garbage human being and people are dead because he is a garbage human being.
Here is what one of the people who helped him win his legal case said
We invested significant effort to craft the image you witnessed during the trial. We outfitted him in new suits, arranged for his haircut every weekend during the trial, and dedicated over 200 hours to prepare him for direct and cross-examination. We employed the world’s leading jury consultant and conducted extensive research through three mock trials to identify the ideal jurors and the most effective approach for his testimony.
Transforming a middle school dropout who was “angry at the world” with a history of violence and an unhealthy obsession with guns and killing into a respectable young man with a desire for higher education and a promising future was no easy feat.
It was a meticulously crafted facade, which we sincerely hoped he would grow into. Instead, he squandered a full scholarship to study any subject at any university in the country to become a divisive douchebag and antagonize black Americans on college campuses. Kyle failed to learn a single thing. He remains the same uneducated, arrogant, and antagonistic individual, incapable of telling the truth.
Now, he genuinely believes he is the show pony we created and has surrounded himself with sycophants who fuel his inflated ego because they prioritize their political agenda and Christian Nationalist worldview over his well-being.
Despite my efforts to guide him toward a better path in life, the allure of notoriety triumphed over the prospect of putting in the hard work of pursuing an education. I regret my role in shaping him into whatever he has become. If I had known what I know now about Kyle’s History, I wouldn’t have been involved.
He’s also a moron. He obtained his high school diploma by cheating on online tests and then went to take the ASVAB and managed to score a 10, a typical average score for a high school graduate is 50, the minimum you can get into the military is 30. We are talking about questions like
If there are three quarts of gas in a gallon container, how full is the container? 50% 60% 75% 80%
I don’t even know how its possible to score a 10
You’re missing some context. I think I would agree with your take if not for the fact that:
the only thing that made the situation deadly dangerous was literally the gun in his hand
I can’t recall if it was indv 1 or 3 but one of them brandishes a skateboard towards his head. A skateboard can easily be a lethal blow to the head.
a fist fight at worst
See above. Also 4v1.
anyone would not hold him responsible for what happened
I actually agree with this. He is culpable of fomenting the situation. A 17 year old with an AR 15 had no business being there.
He’s also a moron
Totally agree.
I can’t recall if it was indv 1 or 3 but one of them brandishes a skateboard towards his head.
Cool Fox News narrative. Are you still trying to convince us you’re a leftist?
Hang on, so skateboard when smashed against someone’s skull is not lethal?
Let’s say a person doesn’t like certain other types of people (be it due to race, religion, political views, or whatever), and that person also glorifies violence against those types of people and they glorify gun violence in general.
Let’s also say this person knowingly and willingly (and possibly illegally) puts themselves in harm’s way, while carrying a gun, amongst those same certain types of people.
Then they get into a situation where they have to use “self defense” in order to escape harm from those people. Luckily they had that gun with them!
Was it legally “self defense?” Yes, apparently. Could it be argued that it was also “hunting” disliked group of people, as if for sport? Yes.
Did Rittenhouse successfully use a self defense plea to get away with murder? Some would argue that he did.
I agree with your take for the most part actually. This is the kindest response I’ve gotten on Lemmy in the past year since this topic gets brought up.
Could it be argued that it was also “hunting” disliked group of people, as if for sport? Yes
He was 17. This fact could easily be argued the other way. In the days preceding the Kenosha riots there were riots in Minneapolis were stores were looted and some buildings burned. About a 1bn in damage happened. Kenosha is a small town where Kyle worked. Could it be he was also concerned about the place his father lived and where he worked?
Also, just because he received a non-guilty verdict I will be the first to say that doesn’t absolve him of culpability in developing a situation that led to harm. As a European that lived in America briefly (ten years) I was very shocked when I encountered the gun culture there. I understand it but I never got comfortable with it.
Thank you again for not resorting to labeling me or putting me down. Gives me a little hope for Lemmy.
Could it be he was also concerned about the place his father lived and where he worked?
Vigilantism is also illegal. It could be argued that had Kyle stayed home those people would still be alive
It could also be argued if the child molester hadn’t chased and tried to attack Rittenhouse that he’d be alive…same with felon skateboard man…and domestic abuser with the handgun.
Did that hurt? Should we call a doctor? You forgot to mention how left you are this time.
It’s funny. No matter what I say, that’s all you will attack. It’s all about purity testing and how much of a team player one has to be. Never about what is being discussed.
In the past I didn’t mention I was left and all I got to discuss was how evil conservative I am. Even though I despise everything conservatives stand for. I really don’t know what to say.
In the past I didn’t mention I was left and all I got to discuss was how evil conservative I am.
Honestly, that is an interesting reaction when you take into consideration that you spout right wing talking points.
which right wing point did i spout that automatically made me a conservative on all my positions…
In that instance the “protesters” create their own bad luck by putting themselves in a situation where self defense rules apply. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Would you be saying that about Rittenhouse if he died due to putting himself in that situation?
as a leftie
Real I’m a black gay guy vibes here.
Show us your leftie registration papers please.
Here’s the thing: If I don’t include that I’m a leftie I spend the whole time defending why i’m not a conservative and never actually discussing the topic.
If I mention that I’m a leftie that disagrees with the main take: I spend the whole time defending why im not a conservative and never discussing the topic.
NO ONE ENGAGES WITH THE SUBSTANCE OF THE DISCUSSION
It’s damned if I do damned if don’t. This is cult behavior. If you disagree with my position, refute my position or provide an argument. There is no grace or charitability offered. Like, why?
So many people on this platform spend all their energy in labeling but never discussing the actual points.
If I don’t include that I’m a leftie I spend the whole time defending why i’m not a conservative and never actually discussing the topic.
Huh, so if you don’t explicitly inform people that you identify as a leftist, everyone assumes that you aren’t because of all of your right-wing positions? That sounds like a you problem…
I hate to break it to you, but if you’re frequently encountering situations where you’re the only person in the room who thinks you’re a leftist, you’re not a leftist. You can self-identify all you want, we don’t have to believe you. And if other leftists think you aren’t an ally, you absolutely don’t get to correct the record on that by supporting Kyle Rittenhouse.
If I mention that I’m a leftie that disagrees with the main take: I spend the whole time defending why im not a conservative and never discussing the topic.
Dude’s so mad he paraphrased the first sentence in his second sentence.
NO ONE ENGAGES WITH THE SUBSTANCE OF THE DISCUSSION
You’re a self-proclaimed leftist who supports a fascist who murdered other leftists at a BLM protest. Everyone is engaging with the substance of your argument quite directly.
It’s damned if I do damned if don’t. This is cult behavior. If you disagree with my position, refute my position or provide an argument. There is no grace or charitability offered. Like, why?
Being a debatelord isn’t helping with the right-wing accusations here, bud. The Kyle Rittenhouse case is old news. You know the Left’s position on him. If being identified as a leftist is so important to you, you’re going to have to accept that endorsing the murder of leftists while they protest isn’t a narrative that is going to earn you anything ever.
So many people on this platform spend all their energy in labeling but never discussing the actual points.
You didn’t defend your point at all in this post and are more concerned with people accepting you as a “leftie”, so don’t get mad that we’re only responding to what you’re giving us. At this point you’re more interested in convincing us that you’re a leftist than explaining in real terms why you like Kyle Rittenhouse and support killing BLM protesters in the street.
If you want to focus on the conversation, stop pearl-clutching every time someone tells you that you’re wrong. If you want a discussion, stop getting hung up on being disagreed with and state your point like an adult.
FOR THE RECORD: I DON’T SUPPORT KILE RITTENHOUSE; I THINK HE’S A POS
The fact that you automatically assumed that from the get-go is ALL I NEED TO KNOW about how much you care about reality or facts.
The ONLY thing you talked about is if is this guy really left or not?
You’re a self-proclaimed leftist who supports a fascist who murdered other leftists at a BLM protest.
No, they are addressing the facts. Notice how you don’t mention the facts at all, you mention a narrative: sticking people in boxes and then taking sides. You’re all but outright admitting the facts are secondary, at best. Just like a good trump supporter.
spend the whole time defending
You’re defending your braindead ideas, not ‘which social group you’re in’; it’s irrelevant.
Does every act of self defense automatically classify someone as a murderer?
By definition, murder is the unjustified killing of a human. This is why homicide is the preferred term, with murder, if it’s mentioned at all, is a particularly egregious form of homicide.
But the events that led to the death of those people that day was due to self defense.
Nope. He sought that conflict out. The verdict aside, the chain of events leading to that conflict lead to him being there, being in that confrontation, and willfully engaging in that confrontation.
Oh lookie here so called “leftist” that’s really a right wing troll
If you had asked an NRA-affiliated self defense instructor in 2019 if what Rittenhouse did was self defense, they would have told you unequivocally no.
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He was chased by 4 individuals
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He was pinned to the ground
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He fired a warning shot
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Indv 1 tried to grab his gun.
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Indv 2 tried to hit him with a skateboard.
At what point do we allow for self-defense?
- To be clear: he should never have been there in the first place. A 17 year old with a gun has no business patrolling a riot with an AR-15. This was a horrible situation that one could be argued he provoked.
To be clear: he should never have been there in the first place.
This is why it isn’t self defense. You can’t go putting yourself in a situation and then cry about it later.
That’s not how self defense works at all…
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Yeah maybe August 2024 is when someone finally says something new on the topic… Jesus Christ. You know why it wasn’t self defense. You don’t agree, but you know why. So just stop.
Hook, line, and sinker. LMAO.
They did NOT establish definitively that it was self defense.
The verdict established that the murders were not premeditated, which they weren’t.
For the charge of 1st degree murder the prosecution had to prove premeditation which they were unable to do, hence the not guilty.
For some inexplicable reason, the prosecution failed to also charge 2nd degree, which would have likely received a guilty verdict.
Please note the distinction: while the defense certainly argued self defense, the not guilty verdict does not prove the defense theory to be correct, it simply proves the prosecution did not meet their burden of proof regarding premeditation, nothing more.
In the US legal system, people are not proclaimed innocent, they are found to be guilty or not guilty. Not guilty of one particular charge does not mean that the defendant is innocent of all crimes.
I watched the entire trial.
Yes. thank you. I agree with your take for the most part.
I’ve spent the whole thread defending how left I am so I’m out of energy to offer a more complete response. I have some thoughts but maybe I’ll come back later.
Thanks anyway.
Cheers.
deleted by creator
He’s definitely a murderer, so that’s a thing.
Somehow this is a controversial opinion in America.
somewhere in America a far right person is gritting their teeth babbling something about ‘antifa’
That’s because so many governors have made hunting liberal protesters legal. It’ll be federally legalized if not mandated if Trump gets back in.
He was literally acquitted by a jury of his peers of murder. Regardless of how you feel about it, it’s shocking that one would be surprised some people think he isn’t guilty.
He wasn’t charged correctly.
Had he been charged with 2nd degree murder he would have been convicted.
The jury was given instructions that they could also convict him of second degree murder.
He was never prosecuted for the most blatant murder.
Which one? What charges should have been brought and what evidence do you have?
I don’t like the guy, he is an idiot who shouldn’t have been there and he’s proven since then that he’s just a piece of shit.
The difference between you and me is that I am able, at least in this case, to put my opinion of someone and my political beliefs aside and objectively look at the facts.
Mods deleted my comment on here ages ago for calling him a murderer. Doesn’t make it not true.
Wow they turned on him even quicker than I would have expected. If he’d showed a hint of spine and didn’t cave immediately it might have infinitesimally moved my respect for him above 0.
The kid will make the right choice on something one day. Or he won’t. Meh.
He had a bunch of what I’m assuming were paid appearances canceled immediately.
Since he didn’t finish high school and turned down college scholarships, it was pretty easy to bring him to heel.
This piece of shit swirled himself to all the other pieces of shit, then forgot he was also shit in the shit stew.
That you, Mr. Lahey?
He had a bunch of what I’m assuming were paid appearances canceled immediately.
The people against “cancel culture” strike again!
Those who live in fear of rejection seldom make the right choice unless it’s the popular thing to do.
He should go cry harder.
When you shit your pants and then you get a whiff
So Conservatives have been glorifying a Trans person, inviting them to speak, and had no idea this entire time?
deleted by creator
It’s always the “trap”'s fault for tricking God-fearing men.
Something something leopards and faces?
LOL he’s the exact embodiment of the entire GOP
Fracture baby, fracture.
Keep on iminfighting.
If only they infought half as much as the left, the world would be a much better place.
Fine, as long as their fracture doesn’t break the rest of us.
A Republican schism is just what the Green and Libertarian parties need.
It’s like Nazi Germany calling anything they didn’t like “Jewish”
Or “Intellectuals” aka woke.
I support my decision and I make no take backs.
Narrator : That, too, was a lie.
Dude does look a little like a lady … sorta.
But seriously “transgendered psy-op and Sandy Hook crisis actor”?!? You can’t make this shit up. It’s like every day I’m reading /r/nottheonion.
These people would murder and eat their own children if they thought they weren’t MAGA enough. Totally not a cult /s
Well they already have the intelligence of fish, so why not behave like them too? Fanatics of all stripes have a proven track record of eating their own for the slightest infraction of the hive mind’s will. They’re a cult; if their insane Messiah told them to kill and eat their own children, I absolutely would not be surprised if some literally did exactly that.
Rule #1 of the right.
If you’re not all in, you’re out.
Nobody cares about this dude tbh 😂
The golden boy is a girl? So weird.
Conservatives last week: “Kyle Rittenhouse was acting in self-defense and should be applauded for protecting the white race from BLM violence.”
Conservatives this week: “Kyle Rittenhouse is just one more example of the extremist violence in the LGBTQ community.”